The Principal's Handbook

Empowering PTAs and PTOs: Strategies for Successful School-Parent Partnerships
[00:00:00]
Welcome to the Principal's Handbook, your go to resource for principals looking to revamp their leadership approach and prioritize self care. I'm Barb Flowers, a certified life coach with eight years of experience as an elementary principal. Tune in each week as we delve into strategies for boosting mental resilience, managing time effectively, and nurturing overall wellness.
From tackling daily challenges to maintaining a healthy work life balance, I'm Barb Flowers. We'll navigate the complexities of school leadership together. Join me in fostering your sense of purpose as a principal and reigniting your passion for the job. Welcome to a podcast where your wellbeing is the top priority.
Welcome everyone to the Principles Handbook. Today I have guest Christina Heideck with us, and she is going to be talking about PTA and PTOs. So I'm so excited to have her on the podcast because this is a topic we have not explored yet. So Christina, if you just want to start by introducing yourself and [00:01:00] the work that you've been doing.
Hi, I'm so excited to join you and your listeners, Barb. , I have been volunteering as a PTO leader in my children's schools for the last 14 years. Before I did that, I actually was a litigation attorney. And then once I had kids, I realized I wanted to see them. And so I transitioned into being a professional organizer.
So when I am not volunteering, that's what you will find me doing is. Organizing people's closets, garages, and workspaces. For the last, , seven years, I have been running, , PTO Answers. It's a company I founded because I found in my own experience, like my own volunteer experience, I just wasn't seeing the type of resources that I personally needed to run my group.
Like, there definitely are some resources, but it's just not the right thing, not quite. Like I said, not what I needed. And so it turns out I was not alone. , I have a Facebook group with almost 8, 000 members. [00:02:00] Right. , who knew there's like literally thousands of us out there working in schools, which you know, but to get everybody together is wild.
And I have people all over the world. Like I thought, Oh, this will just be like a U S Canada thing. Oh no. Like I have people from the Philippines. Like it's been really wild. That's amazing. That is so cool. And it's interesting. I'm glad we're having this conversation because, , as a principal, we're very involved with the PTA, PTO, whoever's in your school.
But right now, this year, I actually joined I got a letter home from my kid's school and there should be four officers and there were only two. And so I wrote in and I'm like, okay, , I guess I can help because so now I'm the vice president because they needed help. And, it's sad to see the same parents doing everything.
And I know parents are busy working and all of that. So I I'm like, how cool that you reached out and, we get to have this conversation because now I'm getting to see the other side of it. [00:03:00] That as a principal, I got to see what it was like to work with the PTA, but now I'm getting to see what it's like to be involved in it.
So it's firsthand. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for stepping up. So many people don't answer that call. They think other people will step up or they're hesitant to step up because they don't know what they're getting themselves into. You know, a lot of people think it's like the never ending black hole of requests because people have not.
Not everybody is a good leader, right? And so they don't know how to delegate. So they're either micromanaging or they're volunteering people to do things like, I even started school. I had a friend who said, well, I got violent. I missed a meeting and I'm now in charge of making cupcakes for everybody. And Oh, by the way, my son was just diagnosed with a gluten allergy.
And so this is going to be a major hassle. And I was like, Tammy say no, like just say no, but people don't know how to do that. So it's like all kinds of fun, interpersonal issues. Yeah, and I [00:04:00] think, , I think for me, what took me so long to step up and actually help out was, I guess I always thought when my kids first started, because right now they're in second and third grade.
So when they first started school, even my oldest as a kindergartner, All the rules were filled. And so I thought, you know, people want to do it. And so this year when they had asked for officers or people who were interested, I thought, Oh, there's plenty of people who'd want to do it. And then when I got that paper home, I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe that.
So what strategies have you found or what suggestions do you have for even principals? for increasing parent engagement in these PTA, PTO activities, because it is really hard to get parents involved. It is hard, and I think coming out of the pandemic, because we're still recovering, and one of the things that I don't know that everyone quite realizes is just how damaging the pandemic was to parent groups that are active in schools, because a lot of [00:05:00] what PTOs and PTAs are doing in schools is.
You'll you understand it when you see it. Well, especially in elementary schools, they necessarily had to roll everything back, cancel events, right? We weren't getting together. And so things looked really different for about two, probably three years. Well, if you have a K to five building, that's the vast majority of your, your school.
And then people are onto the next school. And so what I'm hearing when I'm seeing in my own district. As well as what I am seeing like from all the leaders that are in my Facebook group is that everyone is in the same boat where less parents are getting involved and this is going to be continue to be an issue because parents funnel up to the upper schools and there's less involvement so it's really going to be like a slow moving tsunami of Not enough involvement.
, so to answer your question about what principals could do, well, they can just be super supportive of the [00:06:00] PTO and invite people to come and explain what it is. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what being involved means. It does not mean that you're signing your life away. I think if you do not, Have a good track record of saying, no, this is a good opportunity to start learning that two letter word and start seeing it.
Cause I think you have to take some ownership and think about what available time you have, , and how you want to spend it. And so you need to tell people no or not right now. , but the other thing is that involvement really looks different than maybe it. It doesn't require you being always there in person.
Like there are tons of things that you can do to help out with the parent group or even in the classroom that doesn't require your personal presence at a specific time. And if you really want to be involved, then you should just communicate to the group like, Hey, I can't come to meetings, but if you need me [00:07:00] at X, Y, Z event, let me know.
But I think also principals can demonstrate their kind of buy in by showing up to the meetings, the, you don't have to go to every single meeting, like if you have an assistant principal, you should be looping them in and maybe trading off months with them. You should encourage a teacher to join the PTO and act as the teacher liaison so that it's yet another school employee, like somebody in the mix who knows the other side who can be.
Just taking information back and forth and so that it doesn't all fall on the principal. Like there are so many tools that you can leverage, but you just have to be organized and you have to have those relationships in place to ask so that people don't feel like the teacher liaison doesn't feel like this is one yet another thing that they need to do that they're not getting paid for, right?
So good people to ask for that is maybe someone who's taking classes to get their, , administrative licensure because they're going to be interested in that. And it always seems like there's [00:08:00] a couple of people in every school who are working towards that. So , you have some good options there, but I think just being minimally supportive in that way is, goes a long way.
Yeah, and I loved how you said making sure people know what the PTA PTO does, because when I was a principal, one thing we did a survey and we laughed because so many of the results like indicated that people didn't understand, , The suggestions were suggestions that had nothing to do with the PTA.
Like clearly parents didn't understand what it was. And so it brought some awareness to us that we need to be more transparent about what they do and, you know, what things, um, they fundraise for. So for example, they bought us a, A whole speaker system for the gym and we were able then at every assembly when we had these award assemblies every nine weeks for a while the PTA president was coming up and would explain what the PTA did and then I could use that as a segue of oh they bought this PA system [00:09:00] so that you know you know where the money is going to when you fundraise and you do these different things and you can see.
The benefit of how it benefits your child in the school to be part of the PTA or PTO. Right, right. Just making that connection because some people need it literally spelled out for them because there's so much going on with parents and it's hard to do everything. And so you have to really tell people multiple times and in multiple ways for them to get it.
Like you can't just introduce the PTO at the new family orientation and think you're going to be all set. Like they really need to involve them. throughout the entire year. Ideally, you're going to be working collaboratively with the PTO. And just to reach your building goals, your professional goals, like really, it's a tool that you can leverage.
But I don't know that principals are always looking at it that way. I think sometimes, especially if they haven't had a positive experience, maybe the leaders did not have the training that one would hope, because You know, you [00:10:00] don't get to choose your leaders. They choose to step up. And so they come with whatever life experience or training or career professional experience that they have, which is either a good thing or it's a bad thing, , or somewhere in the middle, you know?
And so it can be more of a draw on their schedule if, or in our time, if the leaders aren't as developed as they could be. Yeah, so fundraising is a huge aspect of course for PTAs, PTOs, so that they are able to provide for the schools. How can principals help guide the PTA or PTO leaders to develop like sustainable, inclusive fundraising, , that really supports the school's mission.
I think I always recommend, I'm a big fan of sitting down in the same room, getting on the same page, like mapping out your entire year. I've seen, I personally have had very collaborative and very enriching relationships with some [00:11:00] principals and other principals. I'm like, Oh my gosh, they just don't get it.
, my very first principal, she's wonderful. And we had a certain really developed level of trust to where I could just kind of run things past her. As a FYI, I was never, Asking, whereas other principals, I definitely had to ask, but again, we had a very high level of trust with each other.
And, it was super helpful if any difficult issues came up because fundraising can be really tricky because the PTA has certain needs because they have a plan. They have ideas of their own. And then the school has certain needs and sometimes it works together and sometimes they're kind of opposed.
And so I think. By getting on the same page and just scheduling out things like if the school is going to have separate fundraisers, make sure it's not in conflict with the with what the PTO is doing like that. , I've seen that go such off the rails at other schools where I have like A new principal came in after my kids had already been on to the next [00:12:00] upper school and like we have one principal who's like a huge micromanager and I was like I am so sorry you're dealing with that because it's a really tough situation but I think just you have to the principals and schools need to be clear on their needs and the PTOs need to be honest about their needs and also their capacity to help and I think that the groups the two different groups get into trouble when The PTO is looked at as just a piggy bank.
Mm-Hmm. aid, and that it's just an extension of the school. Like it, it is, and it, it isn't, and the best PTOs, I think have more independence and have the ability to set their own goals for programs and, and events and fundraisers. But of course with the school's blessing and the principal's blessing, but.
Having some autonomy, , and not being kind of hamstrung with the principal's vision of how it needs to be like you have [00:13:00] these parents who are willing to help, but they are not going to necessarily do everything the way the principal would like. Right. Because they're individuals and they might have a different style so like you have to meet in the middle and figure out what's going to work it's not gonna be perfect.
Uh huh. But , it could work, you know, yeah, it's got to be a true collaboration between the two, because like you said, you, the PTA or PTO has their goals. And so does the school. And I think an important thing that I ran into was , our PTA had this idea that, , they were going to Give each grade level and then divided by teachers money for their classroom.
And it was awesome. They did that for many years, but we did have a system where everything had to be approved by the principal. But then over time, we've had to refine it because we realized that teachers were buying things that really shouldn't be what the PTA or PTO is buying. So, you know, with whatever .
They felt comfortable purchasing that they felt were for all kids versus for [00:14:00] just the individual teacher. They wanted to, , really think about their mission of benefiting the kids more. So there were a lot of good conversations , so for an example of this, a teacher wanted to buy a certain PD for themselves.
And, over time, the PTA was like, I don't know. I get how it benefits kids, but we wanted to buy more tangible things for the kids that they can use. So it's just things like that, having open conversations about what do they, what expectations do they have? What do they want that to look like? And having a lot of open communication back and forth is super important.
Right. Right. And the other, and I kind of touched on this before, but the other thing that principals might not realize is like most groups, most PTA leaders have very few resources at their disposal. Like if you're associated with, do you know the difference between a PTO and a PTA? I do not know. That'd be great.
Um, I got super nerdy and so I have a great analogy and I'm going to super basic. Um, we're going to [00:15:00] just talk about PTOs are like basic unbranded facial tissues. Okay. So they're just like the store brand generic, whatever PTA is really the brand name of those facial tissues. So they're going to be the Scotties, the puffs, the Kleenex.
So all PTAs are PTOs, but not all PTOs or PTAs because you have it, right? So it's a little, it's a little goofy because you have tons of names for PTOs that actually aren't PTOs. The letters PTO, you could have a homeschool association. You could have a parent child group. , but basically if it is not a PTA, then it is a PTO.
Okay. Okay. Got it. So we can talk when I talk about PTs and PTOs, I'm really talking about the same thing. And so I use them interchangeably. , but in, when it comes to training, the PTAs. Of course, our individual units that funnel up to the state PTA, which [00:16:00] then funnels up into the umbrella organization of the national PTA that does a lot of advocacy work and provide some training.
This is where the gap, like I, I was actually in PTAs and I just didn't find that it was like everything I needed. And, but I'm super organized and I like to have things spelled out and I'm a systems person because you don't go through law school and then become a litigation attorney without some systems.
And I prefer to have repeatable, , Just things that you can was called a step and repeat. I don't know if anybody understands that example. It's like on a runway carpet, you know, where you stop and then repeat the post. Anyway, that's where my nerdiness comes in. And so that's what I felt was lacking.
So the PTs have some resources where they can go to leaders, either at their district level or the state level to get some help. PTOs, however, have nothing. They are do not fall Under any larger umbrella organization, [00:17:00] it's kind of like the wild, wild west. So one group is going to wildly different from another, whereas PTA is all there are certain standards that you have to meet in order to be a, Affiliated with the PTA, and so most are 501c3s because you get it, they inherit it from the state PTA, but PTOs, it just depends on if someone knew how to go get the 501c3 classification, file the paperwork and do that, because it's not super hard, but it takes some time and some knowledge to get there.
And so some people have that baseline understanding and some don't, so they just like kind of make it. Work with what they have. So that's really the challenge of the, of PTOs is that they don't really, they only have what other people have given to them, prior, leaders. That makes sense.
Because my school, I had worked with a PTA and now I'm on [00:18:00] a school association, which is a PTO. So same thing, like we were debating on if we should have dues and I'm like, well, don't we have national dues we have to pay? And I'm learning no, because we're not a PTA. Right. You know, that's so individualized.
So yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah. It would be so frustrating though, because I just got an email from a PTO leader today and she goes, now I'm new to the board and I'm having some troubles and I know Nashville PTA has some rules. Can you send me the rules for PTO? And I'm, I haven't yet responded back to her because I haven't had the time, but I like giggled and like, no, there are no rules.
That's the beauty. And the curse of a PTO is that you get to meet them up to be whatever you would like, but at the same time, you have to make them up. And so you're really at the mercy of people who came before you, if they were really organized, if they knew how to write bylaws and standing rules. , and so that's really, Where my experience and my passion for helping [00:19:00] other people step up as effective leaders comes into play because I've developed those resources so that people aren't just adrift and figuring it out because, especially like bylaws and standing rules and maybe this is a function of my, Previous life as the litigation attorney, but , those are like, they're just the essence of a group because it gets everybody on the same page.
You're literally playing by the same rules. You don't have someone who, again, maybe a really difficult leader who likes just to make things up, or maybe likes to take advantage of things for their personal gain or their family's gain or their child's gain and not. Thinking more big picture of this is doing it for all of the kids.
Yes, I'm going to personally benefit from this, but it's also going to benefit everybody else at the same time. , Talk to us a little bit about your group PTO answers and how does that help PTOs and, , how people could utilize that? So it's really just a one stop shop for all of your needs. I called it [00:20:00] PTO Answers because I wanted to be the person giving the answers.
People like always come to me for questions or with their questions. And even when I'm out and about, everyone always thinks I'm in charge. So it's kind of funny. I could just be at a store. Like I was at Target a couple of weeks ago and I wear a lot of blue because I have red hair and I don't look good in red.
So there was no red on me at all. Like not even a red accessory and someone A customer came up and just started asking me where X, Y, Z was and if this was in stock. And I was like, I don't work here , but I just give off the aura of authority. , that's why I started, that's why I kind of, I named it be doing answers 'cause I just wanted it to be a one place stop.
So I have a blog I do, , or I have different. articles. If enough people ask me about something and I'm like, aha, that, that means that there isn't anything out there to help guide people. I have a YouTube channel and then I have a whole bunch of resources for, the groups to help them just really , run their, , PTOs [00:21:00] individually and then as like a whole unit.
And then if the other. Kind of hand in hand with this is that if schools want to kind of take the reins and really show their dedication to supporting the PTOs, and PTAs, because the resources are not, they can be used by anybody who is operating it as a school parent group. , it doesn't step on the toes of the PTA at all, the national PTA at all.
, I have, A big bundle of everything called the family engagement made simple system. And so that's just all of my resources plus some extra training, so that the principal can just hand that off every year to the incoming officers and know that they have the resources, because this will help. Reduce the amount of time that they're in your office or in your inbox, because they will have it and you can be like, well, I know there's, you know, X, Y, Z in here and the principal will have full access to all of the resources to so that you can say, Oh, you don't have a set of rules.
[00:22:00] Okay, we'll go use the bylaws and , standing rules template to get started on that just to kind of get things under control and get things organized so that it can really just cuts the learning curve. So people don't have to figure out what to do before they can do. They can more jump into just doing.
I love that. I think that's a great idea to, , help out. Like you said, it's hard when there's a lot of turnover and it's almost like starting over each time, especially if you're not a PTA where there's not those, you know, bylaws and things already in place. , what about, talk to us a little bit about.
middle school, high school, PTA, PTO, like how do we get more people involved in those? Do you have a lot of parents that you work with that are middle school and high school level? Yeah, for sure. Cause they, I think an involved parent usually wants to stay involved because once you realize the benefit of being involved, like I have such fantastic relationships with my kids, teachers, [00:23:00] They tell me things that I know that they wouldn't normally tell people just because one of our relationship and two, because I'm seeing them, , my youngest is actually in high school right now.
And my oldest is in college, so had one all the way through the system. But I think once you see that. You don't want to give that up. Like , my son, I remember asking him when he was going from junior high to the high school. I said, what are you most excited about? This was my oldest. And he goes, well, no, one's going to know you at the high school.
It's a brand new school. You haven't been involved there yet. And I said, well, buddy, actually I served on the strategic planning committee for the district. And I already know assistant principal, and he goes, Oh, man, I think he was looking to fly a little more under the radar because, , the teachers and administrators know what parents are involved.
And so they'll learn their kids first, just by function of , their often. You know, after [00:24:00] hours, because my kids were always tagging along and I use them whenever I could to literally lighten my load, um, with whatever event set up or selling concessions or whatever. But I think it those that the opportunities for involvement really transition away from like the cutesy, stuff of like class parties.
Like that's the biggest way to be involved or one of the most common or look forward to, I guess, times in elementary life. But when the kids are transitioning and aging and getting more mature, you really want them to be more independent. So the teachers do not want you in the classroom, nor does your child.
, they need some space. And so you need to honor that. And so it really, it shifts. To just providing like at my middle school or my children's middle school. It's really a junior high. We just did, we did fewer family while we did zero family fun programs because no one wants to come to school with their mom or dad for movie night.
So it just more [00:25:00] shifted to more independent opportunities for the kids to get together in a safe environment. , you get to do more fun things. Like we started a bonfire at our junior high, like annual bonfire. And someone suggested I said, There's no way they're going to let us set something on fire.
They're just, there's no way. Well, the principal was all in and there were some, , there was a little bit of pushback from the fire department because they don't like you to intentionally set things on fire apparently. Yeah. , I really didn't think it would happen. And now I think they've done it for six years.
Now, so it's like my group started is so fun because I think again, a big bonfire in the middle of the, um, baseball field. Cause it's dirt, like there's nothing to burn diamond it's off season, baseball season's already done. So it's all good. Um, but just different events like that. And also teacher appreciation.
Oh my gosh, at that age group, Lord, you cannot do enough for them. Right, because all the attitudes. So [00:26:00] there's that opportunity as well as, um, my groups did fundraising for the classes that took us. I'm in Ohio. So the seventh graders do a class trip to the Capitol, which is Columbus. And then eighth graders go to DC.
So there was opportunities to do fundraising, to support kids through scholarships, um, to lessen the cost to go on those trips, as well as we support the 12th grade. scholarship program at the high school. So in my, since we're all PTAs, every unit gives one or two scholarships every year. So it's really, it broadens the community and less out of the classroom, more opportunities to support the entire school.
Uh, so there's definitely a need to be involved, but it's a lot less. And so you get back to the high school and then it becomes a lot more because just as elementary school is so busy with all of those firsts, high school becomes a celebration of all of those lasts. And so there's a lot to do. Like I organized [00:27:00] after prom two years ago for my oldest son and that was a little insane.
We did a casino night and the kids absolutely loved it. I heard that. After prom was more fun than prom. So I was like , gold stars for me. I made this cause I was really just doing it for my kid and his girlfriend and anybody else who wanted to come fine. But I was like, why am I spending all of this time doing this?
Just for my kids. Cause I love him and just wanted to do this for him because he was a pandemic. He was a freshman when the pandemic hit. So he had three years of. Absolutely. Upside down time. Right. Right. Out on a lot of the, just opportunities that you have as a high school or to start becoming, you know, a young adult and doing all the fun things.
So, um, definitely still opportunities. It's just, it happens a little differently. And then at the high school, of course, you have the opportunity to invite kids to come in and get involved and just give them an opportunity to have a voice and a [00:28:00] say in what they want to do or what they'd like to see for their school.
Cause they definitely know. That's true at all ages, but especially in the high school, age group where they feel more confident in expressing views, but you definitely, I love to support that. Yeah, no, that's great. , I.. I haven't worked yet with a middle school or high school PTA, but I know in the district I was in, it does fizzle out and they always have trouble getting officers.
So hopefully, like you said, the more people you can support and encourage in elementary and kind of keep that going as you go up and parents see The benefits and the importance of it , and what they get out of it. Like you said, you get to be part of that school community and just, I'm noticing just being part of, , my kids parent organization, it's a huge difference, right?
Like before I just wasn't that involved compared to now. So it is, it's a great opportunity once you get involved. Yeah, but there's so many things that I would not have known about like in my, we have an upper elementary school here and one year, it was the last meeting [00:29:00] of the year, and the principal made an offhand comment about a huge curriculum change and we all went, , wait, what did you just say like they wanted to get rid of specials, , reduce the amount to only have one every semester and we were like, That's so not going to work for our children.
So then she just, it was like a throwaway comment. But then when parents heard that was the plan, we're like, you have not even talked to us about this. , this is not going to work for my kid who, if he's stuck in choir for a half a year, but he hates, he only likes athletics, like he's going to be miserable every single day.
Day for half of the school year like you can't do that. He's going to not it's going to be revolt, , and so So much conversation came out of that. And then when the parent feedback it was actually gathered, then they're like, Oh, , I guess this isn't such a good plan. And so they had to alter course a little bit, but that was a very specific, , [00:30:00] happening that I was like, whoa, here's the value of the PT in a nutshell, like being there and hearing that.
And it's sad for me for parents who don't get involved because they just don't even know what they're missing out on. And the same thing with a school that doesn't have a PTO or a PTA. Like, I feel bad for that school because I'm like, the parent involvement can bring just such a richness and just another layer and can take a lot off of the principal's plate that maybe they didn't even recognize.
Because they haven't seen it before. But like, if you are really leveraging a PTO, you can leverage them for communication. They're yet another platform to get out there and talk to parents because maybe they have social media platforms that are different from yours, or it's just a different account. So, Facebook wants you to pay for ads, but if you have the school district putting things out, the individual school putting things out, and then the PTO, well, you've just , Added 50%, right, to odds that it's going to get in somebody's feed.
And so [00:31:00] that's an opportunity again, fundraising, , of course they can help you raise money, but you guys can also work together to limit competition. Cause I've seen where schools have said, oh, we're going to do our separate fundraiser this year. And we're going to do it on this time. And it's like, well, the PTO already had something planned and now, , or it's their like, , back to back and like you can't tap the same well for all this, all the, or the same money tree.
It's not going to grow back that fast. But then just getting other parents involved. I think it's just, it's really a huge opportunity that if Principles aren't taking advantage of, then they're just missing out. They're making their life harder. Even though it doesn't seem like it seems like it's going to be work.
It is if you try and do it on your own. But if once the parents have the information, once they know what they're doing, then it's Not very much work at all. Yeah. , thanks so much for being here. Christina is great to have your input. , what's the best way to reach out to you? And I'll put it in the show notes as well.
So [00:32:00] I actually have a special freebie for all of your listeners. They can grab it at PTO answers. com. And it's a six point assessment that takes like five minutes, because it's only six things to look for opportunities on how to partner with your PTO on family engagement, like how you can be fully taking advantage of them.
Some things we've talked about here today, but then some things we didn't talk about that maybe aren't top of mind. So it should get you thinking, and it should give you, . Just kind of pointed on the right path so that you can start leveraging that group to your advantage, not taking advantage. It's really partnering with them.
They want most cases, those parents are ready and willing and able. They're just sitting there and just waiting to be used to make your life easier. So people , should do that. All right. Well, great. I'll make sure to put that link in the show notes. And again, thanks for being here. It was great having you on and having this conversation because it's so important.
Thanks so much.
[00:33:00]