The Principal's Handbook

Welcome to the Principal's Handbook, your go-to resource for principals looking to revamp their leadership approach and prioritize self-care. I'm Barb Flowers, a certified life coach with eight years of experience as an elementary principal. Tune in each week as we delve into strategies for boosting mental resilience, managing time effectively, and nurturing overall wellness.
From tackling daily challenges to maintaining a healthy work life balance. We'll navigate the complexities of school leadership together. Join me in fostering your sense of purpose as a principal and reigniting your passion for the job. Welcome to a podcast where your wellbeing is the top priority.
Well, welcome everyone to the podcast. I'm excited. Today, . I'm here with Principal Mark Schwartz, and I'm excited to have him on the podcast today. So welcome, mark. Thank you.
Super excited to be here. So if you could just tell us a little bit about your background. How much experience do you have as a teacher administrator, and let [00:01:00] us know a little bit about your career in education. For sure. Yeah. Actually, education, , was not my first career. Not my first, I. Thing that I thought I was gonna go into.
, when I was in college, I actually got a chance to go study the Holocaust in Europe. And so I went to different concentration camps and I came back, changed that, that type of trip will change you 'cause going to Auschwitz. And um,, I came back and I took , a ministry class actually, so I, fell in love with , this ministry class, , that we had to take in the school I went to mm-hmm.
Elmhurst University now. And that just , transformed my mindset and , I ended up going down the track of getting a minor in theology and I had a professor say, mark, you should go become a go to seminary. So I actually did seminary first and after I did seminary, , I got my MDiv and I was a youth pastor part-time.
Making no money. And so I started to substitute teach and I fell in love with just the education world and [00:02:00] so sobbing and working at a church. I did that for about a few years and then I just got said, Hey, I should go into teaching. So I got my master's in teaching and my first job was part-time and I loved it.
And, . I just never, I never turned back. And as I continued in the education journey for, I taught for 10 years, I always was studying leadership things. And even though, I wasn't, . Like a true, like by title, a leader. I was always doing leadership things, reading, listening and trying to like grow in that.
And I remember one day I was, , thinking to myself like, man, when I'm principal one day, things are gonna be different. Right. And I actually had to change my mindset because. , that wasn't healthy. It actually made me bitter , and upset. And, , a book I read really transformed the way I looked at as a teacher.
And it's the book's titled, , how to Lead , when You Don't Have Authority. And so I read this book and it just helped me grow as a leader where I was. And I realized I am a [00:03:00] leader and here's how I lead. And I kept learning and learning and eventually I decided, , it was during Covid. I. Master's, , my next master's to be an administrator was the next thing on my list, and I loved it.
I did it at North Park University in Chicago, and one of the best experiences I've ever did, and I haven't turned back since. And so here I am, , this is my third year in administration. I love going to work my first year as principal and, , I enjoy what I do, . That's amazing and I love that you had that different career path.
That's really cool that you, , went to seminary school and started as a youth pastor and, , now have ended up as a principal, which very similar in the space. You were working with kids and so it all worked out in the end that, you are still working with kids, so that's great. , how has your first year as principal been?
I know that can be a little bit crazy. Going into a new building, I always say the first year is the hardest. You're learning students, parents, teachers, there's a lot when you're in a [00:04:00] new district and taking on that new role of principal. Yeah, I the first, this, the first year of administration, , as principal, I guess that was the question.
It definitely a learning curve, , but. Like I said, I love it and I think I love it because of the community that I'm in and the staff are just, their big thing is like they come to me with solutions, not problems. And that's been my, , my culture here of like, if you're gonna come to me with a sol with a problem only, I'm gonna flip it back and then say, , what do you suggest we do?
And they're getting in the habit of that and they're like, , if I come to Mark with just a problem, I'm gonna have to solve it anyway. So we got to a place where. They're coming to me with a problem and a solution, and I celebrate that. And because of that, my job is all about collective leadership. , it gets tricky because, , as a principal, , the final answer, decision falls on you, right?
And so when you have good people around you to help make those decisions. It sure helps. But the first year, yeah, definitely a learning curve. A lot of [00:05:00] relationship building, learning, , being vulnerable, asking for grace, asking for forgiveness, , asking for advice, asking for help. I do all those things.
I'm not ashamed to tell people what I don't know how to do. I think being authentic is probably the best thing to my, it's to my advantage. Being an authentic leader, people recognize like who I am. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes people feel so much more comfortable, like you said, to come with those solutions because they know you're not there with all the answers because you are vulnerable, that they can try things as well.
So I think that's really great. Well, one of the reasons I chose to have Mark on is because before he became principal, he was an assistant principal for two years, and , now he's a principal who has an assistant principal and a topic that I hear from principals a lot, and I know. As a principal myself, I struggled with, , being a new leader or even an experienced leader and leading an assistant principal because not only are you focused on your own growth and trying to do a good job [00:06:00] yourself, but then you have this person that you're mentoring in that role and trying to help them grow as well.
So I wanna start by thinking and reflecting on your time as an assistant principal. What do you think were the biggest lessons that you learned that helped you prepare to step into your principal role now? Yeah, , and I know I can ramble, so just cut me off if I say too much, but I think the biggest learning curve, like in my life as like a youth pastor teacher, I was always like, liked.
I think, , I, you get energy from people that say good things to you or about you. And so I becoming an administrator, like it's not about being liked anymore. Like, and I had, that was a learning curve and I had some mentors in my life. I would either get assigned a mentor, like through the IPA or I would seek out people that I liked that could help coach me in life.
I was always finding adults to help me. And, , man, that was , the biggest learning curve. And I remember a mentor asked me, he said, mark, do you, would you prefer. If you were respected or if you were being, if everyone liked you, [00:07:00] an instinct for me was I wanna be liked. Mm-hmm. And the problem with being liked as an administrator is that.
You aren't gonna make hard decisions, then you're gonna make the decision that's gonna make people happy. , and that was a curve that I had to be okay with. , the meeting, after the meeting, you would see people have a meeting after the meeting and , I was so insecure, like,, oh, they're talking about me, or upset about what the decision I made.
And so that was early on in my admin. AP world that I'm like, , I just have to be okay with the decisions I make and have to be respected, and , that's what I'm gonna shoot for. , does it, do I still wanna be liked? Of course. It feels good to be liked. , I heard somewhere that, , if you're in an organization, in your leader, in an organization, you want people in your organization to not like you.
Because it says that you're doing hard things. Yeah. I'm not there yet. I don't think , I'm seeking out people not to like me. , but I definitely am shooting for being respected. I would say , that's a big one. , another thing, [00:08:00] it's like confrontation I think is hard for a lot of people and education, I think people avoid it.
Yeah. And. I know, like the stuff I've read, the stuff I've been, , listening to, to be a good leader, they all say, , you gotta, , you gotta do the hard stuff. And I, you know, I learned to not avoid it. Have face-to-face conversations. If you get a long email from a parent, don't email back. Do a phone call.
Yeah, because email things get messy. Invite do that extra, , courtesy of maybe inviting them in a face-to-face, we'll disarm people. , I learned that, I learned that. Another thing I think I learned is like under. Under promising and over-delivering. Yes. And that has served me well of, , people are requesting things, teachers are requesting things, parents are requesting things, and to make sure, don't get in the habit of giving them an answer that they want to hear right away.
, telling 'em maybe it won't work, but then finding a way to make it work so that , you [00:09:00] know, you can still have that relationship. And if it doesn't work, having that hard conversation and explaining why it didn't work so. I would say those are, , those are some learning curves and just, I wouldn't say necessarily learning curves.
I think those are things that I learned along the way in things I've read. And now it's like, okay, rubber meets the road, now I'm being tested. Mark, what are you gonna do? . And so I read this from Brene Brown, or I read this from, , Simon Sinek or whoever. Now I better put it in. Now I'm being tested.
Yeah. I think that's a great point. A lot of the things you brought up I struggled with as well. I am, I always say recovering people pleaser, right? , I love for people to like me, I want to please people. So like you said, as a new, , assistant principal and even principal, it was hard for me that people aren't gonna be happy with your decisions.
And you, like you said, people might be, you might walk into the lounge and they stop talking about you as you walk in and it's awkward, but it's like you just have to. , that's just part of [00:10:00] being an administrator. So, you know, as you're navigating that then, and you have an assistant principal, how do you help assistant principals with that?
, I think the, you know, I had , a colleague that we both know who , we have a. , a statement that we've shared all the time is clear as kind, and I think it's like, you know, it's cliche now, but also really powerful. And so I even have , a sign in my office that I brought over from my last district because I think.
, when I'm upset about something, I, I'm not gonna be upset at the other person first. I'm looking internally and saying, what did I do or what didn't I do to communicate my expectations to this person? Yeah. And a lot of it is about what I'm supposed to, like my expectation to this person. Do they know, like what is expected of them in their setting?
And for me, when I was API tried to. Like, do the best I could. I wanted , to leave the place better than I found it. I wanted , to do more than probably the job description said. And that was definitely [00:11:00] frustrating. , I had to seek out a lot of that , and find ways to feel fulfilled. And so I think about aps here.
, the number one thing that I I'll do is just have very clear expectations for what , I'm expecting for the job, but also for the culture and for, you know, how to talk to parents. , and sometimes you get blessed with a person who knows how to do that, , those soft skill type things. And now you're just talking about the.
Like how to run, you know, the systems of school and some of the legal stuff. But like if you have the soft skills, like that's great, but if you don't, it's setting the clear expectations and saying, this is how we talk to people, how we greet people, how I want the office to feel. So being clear with expectations to, an assistant principal I think is huge.
I also think culture. As much as like we wanna talk about, you know, the importance of culture, I don't necessarily think culture is something that you can only teach. Mm-hmm. I think there's a quote that says, culture is caught not taught. I've heard that [00:12:00] recently. And so when we see the things that you want, you gotta celebrate it, you gotta bring it out, you gotta say, this is what I'm talking about.
I see it in action. , so those are, , I think I'm answering your question, but, um. No, definitely. I, yeah, definitely to that. Yeah, definitely. I think having those clear expectations. Um, and I always like to think I can, I can remember so clearly being a new, uh, assistant principal, and I think about how I knew nothing.
You know, like I went to school to be a leader. I knew what leadership was like you said, reading the books like, you know about leadership. But then they give you the office and they're like, okay. So I remember thinking like, so now what do I do? Yeah. I don't have anything to work on. It's summer. There's no teachers.
I don't know what I'm doing. And so I love what you're saying about the principal giving those clear expectations and really even modeling, you know. I needed a lot of modeling as a new principal of like, this is how we handle a behavior situation. Because yes, I had handled it in a classroom, but it was very different than [00:13:00] calling a parent that I didn't know, you know, and, and introducing myself and then explaining this behavior versus as a classroom teacher, they already know I'm a teacher, I have a relationship with this kid.
It's totally different. Yeah. And so there's so many things that you don't realize are so different as a principal compared to being a teacher. That I, I like what you're saying. You have to be clear about what that looks like, what that communication looks like, because we can assume that you're an adult, you're a professional, you know, but you have to remember that this person is completely new to that role.
Yeah. And I think I. To piggyback off that a little bit when I started as ap, , to your point, you show up, you're like, what am I supposed to do? Yeah. I was hungry though, as the AP to figure that out and ask questions. Mm-hmm. , , there wasn't really a system in place to like, uh, have a plan to say, okay, we're gonna, here's how we're onboarding and Right.
You don't have to guess , or wonder , what am I supposed to be doing? So I remember those feelings. Of being onboarded. I remember being onboarded as a [00:14:00] principal and like my big thing is how do we onboard people, um, make 'em feel like they're part of the team immediately? Once they say yes, great, we're moving forward.
We're going to have conversations and be in constant communication. The we're, the culture in our building, in our building right now is that we've had four aps in four years. Yeah. So you can imagine. How the staff feel about another ap, they roll their eyes like, well, this person's gonna stick around for whatever.
So my mission here is that when I was hiring is to be clear and say, here's the reality. When you're coming in, people are gonna feel that you're only gonna, you're here for a few months and you're gonna be leaving. Mm-hmm. So. If you're, you can, you can leave, but ultimately you're gonna know now how people are gonna look at you.
So you have a responsibility to build those relationships and trust quickly so that they can say, okay, this person may be sticking around, but also they're. They wanna do a good job when they're [00:15:00] here. , I'm already having fun conversations about next year because I want this person excited. I want them to know, here's my vision.
I'm sending them materials to think about, to read, , to tell 'em who my, who I am, my culture, my vision. I don't want there to be any surprises, you know? And then getting them excited for their ideas. , I think it goes to like AP world, everyone says it's the worst job. Like being an AP sucks. And I was like.
Yeah, it's hard, , but , why is it so bad? , I look at things through the lens of , not just education, but just like the business world and all these things and like, you know, the work life balance messaging, I think is wrong. I think it's a myth. I say like work, work, work. Life fulfillment. Are you fulfilled in your work?
Yeah. If you are fulfilled in your job, you're gonna give more. And I think if aps feel like they're a dime a dozen and they're just doing. The grunt work, and then they're not valued, they're out. They don't feel like they have vision. They can add to the vision. , they're not gonna feel valued and they're [00:16:00] gonna leave.
Yeah. And I want them to feel like, no, I need you to feel that you're giving your more than just like the grunt work, but like your ideas and your passions and your skills outside of the job description, what makes you feel fulfilled is gonna make our organization better. And they're gonna love coming to work, so Right.
I think you bring up a really good point there, and I have this conversation with some assistant principals that I coach because me personally, I hate, one of the things I hated about the job was discipline, right? And I, I, I, it's funny, the one assistant I had loved discipline, and I'm like, why? Why would you love doing discipline?
, but he loved that connection with kids. We were just different on the things that we enjoyed, but. I always say you have to have things in your job that you love, that bring you energy, because if you're working all the time, like you said, if all day are these things that you hate doing, if you're disciplining all the time and you love instructional leadership.
You're not gonna be fulfilled, but if you can find a way, so I think this is [00:17:00] where principals can support their assistants, giving them ways that they're building their leadership, not in just discipline or, a lot of, , assistant principals are in charge of special ed or a lot of meetings that I can see get, you know, you're in them all the time.
It gets redundant and you want other things in your leadership. And I think. The more that we can give them things that energizes the assistant principals, makes them excited to be there and see that big picture. Because if they get stuck in their office doing discipline too, they miss out on what that big picture of leadership even looks like.
Vision, what instruction looks like, you know, all of it. So I think that's a really good point that you have to find the things you love and make sure you're doing those things as well. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. , how would you describe the difference between being an AP and being the principal?
What shifts have you had to have the most in terms of responsibility? Maybe your own mindset or relationships that you have with teachers? Yeah, I think that's a, it's a, it [00:18:00] makes me laugh thinking about that question because I remember. , when I was a AP and I wanted something to be changed and , it's a lot harder, you know, you have an idea, but like ultimately you're the ap it's the principal's decision to make some of the bigger changes.
So there's frustration in that. , and I think I. I wasn't necessarily looking to move out of the AP role. I kind of got found and like some relationships asked me , to try something different. I'm like, great. , I think , a funny moment this year, I was with the AP and, , we're just talking about an idea we had and I looked at him, I'm like, wait, I'm the principal.
I can do this. I can make this decision. This is great. So like, that was just like a moment in the beginning of the year that I just like laughed and I'm like. This is, it feels good. And I'm not like a power hungry person. I truly believe in collective leadership with our BLT team, our building leadership team.
Our committee leaders, like teachers know that I want their input. Teachers know that I need their input. , parents [00:19:00] know like , it's a collective decision, but. It's so exciting to know that, , like leadership is a responsibility and it's a privilege to have and how you go about it. Like , my approach has been like, what do we, what's best for kids?
Mm-hmm. Also, what's best for the te, like, how can we benefit the teachers? So it's fun. I've had those aha moments this year. Like,, oh, I could do this. This is so cool. Yeah. No one's gonna ask any questions. And , my upper, like the upper admin, the district leadership team. , they're really, they don't micromanage either.
And so I was asking some questions like, can I do this? And they're looking at me like, mark, you're the principal. Yes. Yeah. It's your budget, it's your decision. You decide what you think. , some of the ways that I just went about this year with how I'm running my interviews and how, , I'm bringing hospitality to our school and it's changing now other minds of people in our district and it's just so fun.
It's what gives me fulfillment and knowing that. I can make those decisions without, you know, too much oversight. It is just been, it's been really fun. , [00:20:00] now that's the fun stuff. Obviously the hard stuff is like a hard thing comes to this, to our building and now it's my, I have to make either, I have to have that harder conversation.
I have to make that bigger decision. , the one thing I've learned in leadership is, you know, you need to have a point of view. And you also need to be assertive. And , the decisions eventually, like I, that's a growing thing for me. 'cause I, being a recovering people pleaser, like , you wanna, is this okay with everybody?
But ultimately, right, you sometimes just have to make a decision, right? You might have to deal with the ramifications of it later, but I think people value, okay, a decision was made, we'll clean it up later, but a decision needed to be made in this situation. And that's, I mean, one of the challenges of being a principal, right?
There are so many decisions that you have to make right now. There are some decisions you get time and you can process and think about, but you know, there are a lot of things that people need a decision right now. And so you don't wanna be indecisive about it or not know [00:21:00] what. The right thing is to say, so you just have to go with it and then, like you said, clean it up, figure it out later.
But this is the decision I made. And I always tell principals, have a, an affirmation for yourself. Right? , I made the best decision I could in that moment. Because sometimes then we reflect and we're like, , I didn't like that I did that. Well, you had like five seconds to figure it out. Yeah, sometimes.
And so we need to give ourselves a little bit of grace there. And I've had a hard conversation with parents who didn't like things I did. Right? And so I'll have 'em at the table and they're complaining, why did you do this? And I listen. I go, yeah, it was a really hard decision. And , here's the information, right?
And then what I do to teachers. What do you suggest we do? Yeah. And when they have to pull back and think about it, I've heard , this said to me a lot. I could never be an administrator. I don't know how you do your job. And I'm like, yeah, it's really hard. And we're doing the best we can with the information we have and the resources we have, and I'm always willing to listen and have a better idea come my way and change [00:22:00] a decision.
Like nothing is ever final. Right. I mean, you're gonna make a final decision, but I'm not saying, but you can always adapt it later, right? And so when parents are part of that, , it's, yeah, you're making hard decisions that they don't like. But if you're able to tell 'em like, here's why. Do you have a better idea?
Most of the time people are like, okay, now I see why you had to do that. And I think it goes with what you were saying earlier when you're vulnerable, like you said, of Yeah, it's hard. , it's not like it was just easy for me to do this or, but this is what my thinking is. Right. Like you're sharing your why, you're sharing your thinking behind it, not because I'm the principal and I made this decision.
Sure. Right. It's like bringing them into it and building that relationship as part of. That experience and then I'm sure moving forward, then they trust you more because they realize all the thought that went into that one decision. A hundred percent. And I think it's exhausting to do that. And you don't do it for every decision you make.
You do it for the ones that you know, cause a little bit of concerns to people and get [00:23:00] 'em a little anxious. I think another thing that, it was interesting this year as principal. Ap ap. AP for me in my last two years, you have a lot more kid time because your job is to be with kids and discipline and all that stuff and be part of the 5 0 4 meetings.
I'm realizing in this year, like instead of kids coming to you, 'cause it's just the way the nature of the job is, like I have to go to them and I have to be intentionally building relationships and I think principals have a reputation. Culturally of , oh, that's the principal.
Well the principal talked to me, oh, I'm in trouble or whatever, and , that's just not who I am. And so the more positive relationships and fun goofiness I can have with kids, the more they realize, , I'm not that mean like person they think about, but I have to go to the kids. And that has been different.
That's been a learning curve for me and I, that was hard starting this school year. And we have in this community, not many behavior problems. Mm-hmm. It's with kids. So when we talk about me going to the kids, it's real, really me going to the kids, [00:24:00] showing up to their activities, , showing up to, you know, , their classrooms, talking to 'em at lunch, like it's, , it's an investment that is totally worth it.
, but that was a learning curve for me in my last district. They came to me, I. Yeah. They saw out and it was fun. Mm-hmm. And this is, I have to, I just have to change my perspective and , my approach , in the capacity I'm in this year. Yeah. And I think as a principal, , as you have an assistant that's even important to model to them.
Like that intentionality of getting out of the office of when you have time getting into classrooms, and having a vision of what kind of principal do you wanna be? Because you get to decide, right? I've had principals that were in their office a lot. My principal, when I was a teacher, , for the majority of the time, was in classrooms all the time.
And he always knew what was happening in the building. That was just part of his personality and how he wanted to be seen as the principal. If he wasn't there. My kids were asking where he was. Hmm. Which I always thought was really cool, you know? So,, yeah, I think [00:25:00] having that vision of the type of leader and helping your assistant to come up with that vision as well.
Yeah. All right. So if you could go back and tell yourself one thing during your first year as an assistant principal, when you were brand new, what would it be and why? , I had a teacher this year tell me something that I wish I had, I wish I had back then. And, , he said, don't sweat the small stuff.
Mm-hmm. , . And then I found a book that's titled Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. Yeah. And then I'm at , a thrift store and , I saw the book on the shelf. Don't sweat the small stuff. I mean like, You hear this enough, you're like, okay, something's here. Right. And I sweat the small stuff a lot in my last district.
And one of the, one of the things like Friday night emails are the worst from parents. 'cause you know, they are trying to recap, I get the worst emails on Fridays complaining about something and it'll just ruin my weekend. And I. I wish I can go back and say to myself, don't sweat that because it's gonna pass.
It can wait. , I'm very on top of my emails to people, like I want [00:26:00] them to know, , that's a priority of mine and it shows trust for the parents, the community I'm in now. Eat it up. I did it back then too. But I might have let that eat at me a little too much. Mm-hmm. It goes back with being liked and not respected and I think, I wish I would've waited in some situations and slowed down.
Yeah. Instead of ing and not let some of this stuff bother me. So now it's amazing. I get an email that's really hard from a parent. I just look at it and I say, yep, that seems about right. It's Friday, I'm getting a Friday email. I told myself I'm gonna be getting Friday emails that are not fun. Mm-hmm. And, , giving my, per myself permission to close it and not worry about it until Monday.
Yeah, that's great. It's been a, it's been a benefit. It's also, I mean, it's not perfect. There are moments that these, some emails are harder than others, but, . I also will, I also think that, having a team of people like, , don't be afraid to , lean on your people. And so yeah, that's been, that's what I would tell [00:27:00] myself for sure.
Yeah. I took email off my phone and that was game changing because like you said, as a new AP. I would check my email at night and I would be like, or Friday sick all weekend about it. You know, like,, oh my gosh, I have to talk to this parent on Monday. , I didn't respond over the weekend, but it would be festering in my head because again, me as a people pleaser, right, like that bothered me that that parent was mad.
And so one, I stopped checking my email at four, and then I learned over time, I always laugh because I would check it the next morning and when I read it, if I didn't look at the time, I'm like, I bet this was sent at 4:00 PM , the kid gets off the bus, complains to the parent. The parent madly writes me an email.
And then you would call 'em at eight o'clock the next day. Oh, we worked it out a hundred percent. Yeah. I, you know, that's so funny you say that, Barb, because that was, that's something I've learned every year and also like the more you're in it, you're like, okay, I've dealt with this type of parent, I dealt with this experience, but like, let it cool [00:28:00] off, right?
'cause the parent's hot and when you, , and what I, my emails now have been when I get those hard, long emails, and this is what I tell my aps, first of all, get ahead of the narrative. So if a kid comes to you with something, get ahead of it. Let the parent hear from you before the kid. , but if that doesn't happen for whatever reason, my responses have been, , like I'll be cordial and everything, and I'll say, I love to talk to you on the phone and set up a time.
And sometimes you set it up so it's, you stagger it so it's not the next day or the next, you know, really soon you give 'em some time and they can process it, they can cool off. And that has served me well. , yeah. You're in control. I mean, it's my school, right? So it's, I can decide when I have a meeting or not.
Right. So that's been helpful. I think that's a great point because a lot of times parents wanna dictate, I'm talking to the principal right now. I had parents call me and say, , she'll call me now or I'm calling the state. And I said, well, they can call [00:29:00] the state by, by the, they get through to the state.
Good luck. I'll have called them back. So, I mean, people have called like, or emailed the mayor. It's , okay, like great. Right. So it's like you can't let those threats, you know, make you move in a different way. Like you said, you're the principal, you're in control. Yeah. And I think we lead, I mean, that's another thing with our leadership that I'm modeling for not only teachers, but our, the AP for sure is like how I respond to things they're picking up and , it's a balance because if someone comes to you and they feel like a teacher or an ap, they feel like it's urgent and or it's , a really hard thing that's weighing on them.
I gotta like respect that because it is a feeling that they have, but also. I think be cool, calm, and collected and say. Let's slow it down. This is gonna be fine. And if it's not frazzling me, like it's gonna be okay. Yeah. When I model that and , even when we have like things in our building, like we had some stuff this year where it's , how you're [00:30:00] talking to me is how I'm gonna handle, I.
A, a crazy situation. , but also they know I'm in control. Mm-hmm. And we are in control of ourselves. Soon as you start losing that, conversations with parents, that are hot, that they want to all these, all these things, like I get calmer. Yeah. , I get, I get closer, I get more of a listener.
And it's been, it's what I'm modeling to our aps and , our teachers. And so they see me act this way, you know? And. It's gonna be fine. And the meetings that come in hot, they end laughing and they're happy and they change their mind about certain things, like Right. Not for everyone, but I would say most of the conversations start hot and , they end in a good place.
Mm-hmm. I think a lot of the things you're talking about here for modeling with your assistant and things for principals really comes back to like emotional regulation, right? Mm-hmm. Like managing your emotions, staying calm, being able to communicate and build those relationships with , teachers, parents, everybody, right?
When you have the skills to emotionally regulate [00:31:00] in all areas. You're modeling such great things for your assistant principals. So I think, overall that's such great advice that you have. Yeah, for sure. Anything else that we didn't touch on that you, , feel like it would be helpful for a principal who's brand new to mentoring an assistant principal or, they just feel like they're not doing a good job?
Yeah, , I think,, communication and building that trust, obviously, like it's the cliches thing, so we have , to do. but I'll share what,, where my life's passion is right now. , it's been in me my whole life, but now I'm in a position of like principal authority, I guess, where I can do cool stuff.
Yeah. But I read a book. A couple summers ago, I actually, I listened to it by a Michelin star chef, his name is Will Guera. The book's called Unreasonable Hospitality. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. Mm-hmm. The book that he, his life works. So he's a four star Michelin restaurant, number one in the world, and the book's all about giving people [00:32:00] more than they expect.
And I read this book, listened to it. 'cause , the, actually the author reads it and I love when they do that. The book sounds better that way 'cause it's their words, right? Yeah. So I'm listening to the book and I just, , I felt, and I'm not an audiobook guy, but I fell in love with it. And , I dunno if you've ever watched the Bear.
, that a couple, yeah. Okay. So there's this episode in there. They're actually stealing this story from the book, and , they put it in the show. And, , I shared the story with our bl, our building leadership team. , the story goes like this. , there's a, a really fancy dinner at this restaurant called, 11 Madison Park in New York City, tro it's real restaurant.
And these people are sitting there eating their, you know. Michelin star food, thousands of dollars they're spending and they're talking about it and the waiters listening and they said, man, this was a great meal. This is a great trip to New York. But everything, we got, everything we wanted except, you know what, we didn't get.
We didn't get that, New York style hot dog. And so they wanted a New York style hotdog talking about this. And they're just like, yeah, we never got a chance to [00:33:00] do that. Well, the waiter is listening. They don't know he is listening. He goes, runs off. And he goes. To down the road. And guess what? He goes, picks up a New York style hot dog.
Yeah. He brings it again. Give it to the chef. Chef's , what are you doing? Cuts it up. Makes it nice, brings it. And he says, I heard you guys had a great trip, but you are missing one thing. That New York style hot dog. And I shared that story with our staff. . And my life work right now is like, how do we bring on reasonable hospitality and education?
Yeah. And how do we listen? Well, how do we listen? And , the phrase I'm sharing right now is like, how do you listen for magic? How do you find opportunities to hear those cool moments either about a kid, about a parent, about a staff member that. They don't know you're necessarily paying attention to, but you surprise them with something that they're not expecting.
Mm-hmm. And I've done that a ton. I've modeled it. And so my recommendation for like ap,, I tell 'em in our secretaries and like anyone that's in this business is listen for magic. Find ways to do these unreasonable hospitality things to people because it's gonna win 'em [00:34:00] over. It's gonna make 'em feel the most important person in your organization.
. And it feels good to be the one doing it. Right? So for the person doing it, and so our current ap, he's going to , the new school now, right? And he is like meeting people. He is taking days off here to go meet the new people, which I think is great. And , I say to this, to him, I say, , hey Donia, I want you to, , make sure your first impression's really good, right?
Mm-hmm. Have fun. Mm-hmm. Listen for magic. Yeah. And so his mindset right now is , he's listening for these little things. So when he can start his new job, he's coming in right now serving people in ways that they are not, they're not expecting. So that's like my life work. My, I mean, I would say, , being intentional there, , has been, it's been, it's just been fun.
We're actually trying to change, , the way I do my interviews, I'll share one real quick thing that I thought was really fun. , we're doing interviews. I'm interviewing , this lady over the phone and she's talking to me how she just like left a coffee shop, brand new coffee shop and tells me the name of it.
I asked her like, oh, what's it called? I love [00:35:00] trying new things, and she tells me, and I locked it in my brain. I wrote it down in a note and I said, if I hire this person, I'm gonna surprise her with something. So we ended up hiring her. And, , I sent her a card right when she accepted and the card said, , , welcome aboard.
And, , the next coffee's on me. And I got her a gift card to the coffee shop she told me she was sitting at. Yeah.. And those like little moments that like here that I'm. You know, again, caught not taught, but like , I'm modeling like the expectation that I have for the staff so that now there can do it to the students.
Mm-hmm. And , I can't tell you how many, like when I first asked this question to my staff, I said, . Talk to me about, , are we a hospitable school? And they hated that question. , what are you saying? We're not hospitable. I go, I'm not saying anything. I'm just asking my question. That was months ago.
We are now in a spot where people are coming to me with ideas on how we could be more hospitable to our families, to our students, to each other. And they're coming to me with these ideas and I'm [00:36:00] just like. I'm so excited to see where next year's going to be. Yeah. And all I'm sharing with you, I'm sharing with the new ap.
I'm like, this is who I am, this is what I want. , let's make it happen. I'm getting our PTO involved with how we can, do some of these things. So I would say , you know, listen for magic. , this job's hard enough, right? And if we could find ways to make people feel fulfilled and like really important, .
Let's do it, let's make our kids that don't want to come to school. We have like truancy issues, right? Right. How can we make our kids want to come to school? , those are the things that I just like, , I'm loving right now. And , yeah. I love that. And like you said, it's fun, right? It makes the job fun, it builds relationships.
Yeah, for sure. Well, I think that's a great note to end on. Thanks again, mark, for being here. It was, yeah, great having you on the podcast. How could people connect with you if they want to ask any questions or just find you well, , how can you find me? So , I think social media has been a little bit weird lately.
So like the Twitter world I think is now x is not [00:37:00] my priority. I'm on LinkedIn. Okay. So you can find at my name. Also you can email my,, email is my name, mark t schwarz@gmail.com. Okay. , love this stuff. So if anyone's interested in talking about hospitality and in education, like , that's my passion and that's where I'm , headed, , next to, , my next endeavor of how do I bring more of this into the school setting.
Awesome. Well, thanks again. I appreciate having you on the podcast. Thanks, Barb.