The Principal's Handbook

Using PBIS Data with Brian Callahan
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Principal's Handbook, your go to resource for principals looking to revamp their leadership approach and prioritize self care. I'm Barb Flowers, a certified life coach with eight years of experience as an elementary principal. Tune in each week as we delve into strategies for boosting mental resilience, managing time effectively, and nurturing overall wellness.
From tackling daily challenges to maintaining a healthy work life balance, I'm Barb Flowers. We'll navigate the complexities of school leadership together. Join me in fostering your sense of purpose as a principal and reigniting your passion for the job. Welcome to a podcast where your wellbeing is the top priority.
Welcome everyone to the principal's handbook. I'm here today with Brian Callahan, and I'm so excited to have him on the podcast as our guest today. He is going to just start by telling us a little bit about himself and what he does in education.
He has a lot of great experiences to share. He Has experience as an [00:01:00] administrator. He is a doctoral candidate right now, getting his Edd and currently works for a state support team. So Brian, if you want to go ahead and tell us all about yourself. Thanks, Barb, and I appreciate you having me on.
So yeah, my educational background is pretty unique. I'm here in Northeast Ohio. I went to Kent State. , I have a degree in health and physical education, which spans through K through 12. , and I was able to use that licensure all through those grade, , grade bands. So K through 12, I was able to use that.
And then also. I was in different settings too. I was in urban, suburban and rural areas here in Northeast Ohio. , so after seven years of being in the classroom and in the gymnasium, coaching every sport under the sun, I decided to move into, , administration. So that was 2018 and I became an assistant principal for you, , at field local.
And then, I [00:02:00] was at field for three years, and then I moved to a neighboring district, , Shrewsboro for one year as an AP, and a lot of this stuff was focusing on climate in the building, right? As an AP, you're dealing with a lot of, , discipline, you can run some meetings, you're doing instructional walkthroughs, , different, degree of intensity, I would say, for, , principal and AP.
But going, into that role in the second district, Shrewsboro, , this was right after the pandemic, , when students were coming back in, , a lot of different things that were going on there. And so trying to manage. That year , was unique. And then that led me, , into, , a role at the state support team in Cuyahoga County.
So it's a state support team for region three, which is, , designed to help school districts that, , are struggling, , in regards to academic success. So if they're in the bottom 5 percent in the state for academic [00:03:00] scores. or they qualify for low graduation rates, which would be below 67%. So my work has moved more north, more towards the Cleveland area in which now this is my third year as a state support team consultant, Which means I'm working with building principals, district leaders, , and looking at systems and taking a systems approach, like what the infrastructure , of the organization, where can we improve and how do we improve and then understanding the importance of why, , some things are not in our control.
Some things are in the building's control, but. It's really trying to audit what's going on and then trying to figure out, all right, where can we put our investments , and our money for this? And to the side of that, we've, I'm more focused on the climate aspect. So really focusing on with PBIS and building a school climate within these different settings.
So whether it's a community school or traditional, , district, , [00:04:00] also Another piece of this is that I've been focusing on virtual learning environments such as online learning. How does PBIS look like? , in this new realm since, , the pandemic. So there's a lot going on. And you mentioned, , the doctoral program I'm in.
And , I'll just highlight that I am focusing on principal retention and urban settings and, , the impacts of formal mentoring programs, , and how do they lead to, if they do. , principal staying within those districts. So a lot going on. Going from teaching kids how to roll a ball in kindergarten to instructing, district leaders on their one plan.
It's been quite a journey for my past 13 years. Well, and I just have to say, I think we're going to have to do another podcast episode on your dissertation topic once you finish that, because I think that's a great topic about mentoring. And, we've had some conversations on that mentoring, coaching, all that kind of stuff and giving coaching.
Principal support, I think is a [00:05:00] really important topic. So we are going to have to explore that. And, , yeah, one of the reasons I had Brian on is we got to work together. I laugh. I was a brand new principal. Brian was a brand new AP. So I don't know that either of us really knew what we were doing when we started, but we did it.
We got through it. , And we did a lot. Brian led the PBIS teams and things like that in the building. , and then in his experience, like he said, , my background is primarily elementary, but he's had so many experiences that have led him K 12 between being a P. E. teacher And then now he's working with all kinds of districts and gets to see all kinds of different things happening.
And so has a wealth of knowledge about these different topics. So as our listeners are starting the school year and they're getting data, what kind of data informed decisions do you help schools with and, , give us some tips on that. Yeah, so data informed decisions. , that's The [00:06:00] meat of it all.
And when we look at this, we want to make sure that, , one that teams might sound silly, but we're gonna make sure teams are collecting data and making sure that data is related to what we're trying to improve. , for example, just living in the PBS world, , do they have a system of data collection that is, quick for teachers?
that is easy to manage and decipher for administrators or whoever is going to be that data collector. And then can that tell us what is actually going on in the building? So if we're doing this referral process, okay, if we're looking at where these referrals are coming from, hey, we have a, we have an issue with students being in the hallway between periods.
Okay, so that just gives us a glimpse of what we need to start doing [00:07:00] next. , that data is I don't think it's ever good or bad. It just tells a story. It's Hey, this is the data point that we have. I love the quote I heard. , don't get furious, get curious about it. So, Hey, this is something that we see.
We need to make sure that, all right, what are we going to do about it next, right? What now? And so what strategies can we use next? evidence based strategies if we're talking about instructional practices, but what can we use in order to help mitigate this issue? Okay, when the principal is doing walkthroughs or, the principal's out in the hallway during call exchange, He or she notices that there's only 50 percent of teachers out by their door.
All right. So maybe that's an issue. Maybe we're not, , out in the hallways enough. Do we need to start doing hallway sweeps? What are those things that we need to do in order to, really focus in on that problem? But I think the first thing is always going to be, how are you collecting data? All [00:08:00] right.
, is it easy for teachers? To do, , sometimes if you're talking about writing a referral, , it, if it's taking longer two minutes, it's probably too long for a teacher. And then it becomes a barrier , for them , to do it. , I've seen districts to where their systems, , whether it's an online platform to where they have to log in, they have to go through multiple, pieces of this website to actually get to the referral process.
And then by then. , it's five minutes into third period and they forget to write the referral. So one, making sure , that process is easy for teachers to do. , but then also when you are collecting it, whose responsibility is it to look at the data? Is it going to be one person who's then going to decipher the information out to a team?
Is it going to be the team's decision to look at it and then. As a group, decide what the next steps are, but overall, it should be within a framework or some sort of procedure that you have in place. Those database decisions [00:09:00] should be more frequent, , throughout. And yes, a lot of these meetings, whether it's going to be with your BLT, , or what we call our building leadership teams or your teacher based teams, Or your PBIS teams, all these things, , should be making decisions quite frequently.
So let me ask you this. So when we worked together, , you created a Google form because a lot of schools, I know one for PBIS was , they were using Swiss. And so we weren't purchasing Swiss. So you created a Google form with kind of those same ideas. And then it worked every year we tweaked it. , and we would put our referrals and that came to the office and that was the system.
That we used the whole time that I was there,, and we never had teachers filling out data. So I guess, , give me your thoughts on that because we had it just as a system. , and I have to say, and you can probably speak to this, every building's different with the amount of discipline. So if you're not getting a ton of classroom discipline, it might look different, , but what would you suggest in that [00:10:00] situation?
Should we have had a smaller Google form for teachers? What does that look like with data collection when you are just doing it from the office side? Yeah, I think, , if you have a smaller Google form or, , what we created was, I would say roughly 10, 12 questions long, but also it was getting pretty in depth because some of the information that we needed might not have been pertinent necessarily for the teacher to have.
Right. If it's something quick, in which, hey, we end up getting a ding from the office, , hey, a teacher put in this ticket or this referral. How long does it take for me to see it? , I think is another piece of that. , so when we think about it, like when we saw Swiss, which is from, PBIS apps, That, , basically is a quick and easy way to collect data, but some districts cannot afford it or are not purchasing it.
We try to make it simple. So we have this information that people [00:11:00] can see. Think on the end, just making it quick and easy for teachers, , to do, and that everyone has access to, because, Hey, now, if we're talking about, it's going to be a Google form. Is it going to be an icon on their laptop or on their desktop?
Is it, , a quick and easy access that they can get to their own on their phone? Is it a QR code? , there's some other ways that we're seeing how to collect that data. , but again, it should be kind of quick with this process and kind of the reverse side too. Because when we think about behavior, we tend to focus on the negative and we tend to focus on just like, Hey, how many kids are coming to the office for behavioral issues?
But, there's a lot of programs out there now that are designed to acknowledge behavior, such as like Class Dojo, in which, we can see, this type of system to say, all right, how are we recognizing , our students, and what teachers are doing this. And , we want to have full buy in, obviously, with a lot of these initiatives.
[00:12:00] Especially with PBIS that, hey, we are recognizing students , for behavior that is meeting and exceeding the expectation. Acknowledging them with points, PBIS teams could then even look at that side of , hey, we have, 40 tickets that were passed out, by the third grade team, , for being responsible.
However, we're looking at the first grade team, , we only saw five. Is there a way we can bump up these numbers? Now, , some people may argue , if they're not doing it, then They shouldn't be rewarded. , but at the same time, if students are being whatever your slogan is, be safe, be responsible, , be respectful, whatever that is.
, then they should be acknowledged. And my thing is , you're never going to run out of points. So , if it's going to help that student continue that behavior, , and along as there's some teaching along with it, then yeah, , give them those things. But, , for the team, whether you're collecting data.
For behavioral purposes in regards to [00:13:00] unwanted behavior. That's one piece, but also you can use it looking at. All right. How are you recognizing behavior? Do we need to do a better job of, , recognizing being responsible? Hey, our students are not in the classroom. In their spaces when the bell rings, they need to be in the classrooms, then maybe we boost those up.
Going back to your question regarding, what does that look like? , as long as teachers have access and are able to use a form in a quick manner, I think that's going to be the best, , whatever that looks like for them or whatever it looks like for that building, , , that would be important.
Do you have any specific guidelines for what to put on it? So on our big form, I'm doing all this off the top of my head, but we had a name of student. , I think we had race if they were on an IEP. We had the location of the behavior, the type of behavior, the time of day. The consequence we gave in the office, just so that those were things we could track for [00:14:00] a teacher form.
What one or two things would you put so that it would be super quick? So when I'm coaching teams, , a lot of it just begins with the big five. So who, what, when, where, why? , and so it should be pretty simple. If teachers can do it, , within 30 to 30 seconds to one minute, like that's ideal.
It's just like, , how do we have access to that? Because when we talk about the who, what, when, where, why, , and if you start sprinkling in some more detailed things, sometimes , it's going to be tough, , especially when we think about, Hey, it's a high school or a middle school, and you don't know the student that's walking by, they're not meeting the expectation.
It's requiring you to follow the procedure of writing a referral. , and you might not know if the student has a 504 because they're in a different grade level or, you don't necessarily have that student. When it comes to that, , that should be something in which the, , teams, the PBIS teams, when they're making or deciding on [00:15:00] what to use as a data collection measure, , just keeping it simple.
So the who, what, when, where, why. Seems to be the easiest way to do that. , you spoke a little bit about the idea of focusing on a behavior, and it can be really hard for teachers, and I would, in probably even principals, if you see a kid Doing something or we know they have behaviors and maybe they're not following every expectation, but they are being safe.
So we record that they're being safe. Talk to us a little bit about focusing on those specific targeted behaviors. Maybe one behavior at a time. Yeah. , especially if we have students that might need more supports more often, , and we need, accessing certain tiers of PBIS. So when we're looking at.
, everyone's probably seen in education, the triangle, , when you have tier one, that's reaching 80 percent of your students or assuming all of your students, but most time when we're building up this tier, you're probably going to have [00:16:00] 10 to 15, , or 15 percent ish that will be, , needing supports in tier two.
And then the top, the most intensive piece would be tier three, which is basically. going to be 5 percent of the population, right? So when we look at this, , those students that, , are struggling to, let's just say our school's motto is, or PBIS focus is , be safe, be responsible, , be respectful.
If we can continue to highlight the student's success in one of those things, , when we acknowledge behavior, we're more likely to see it happen again. , the focus should be, hey, if this student is really struggling, and we're doing with fidelity, , tier one supports, For all of our students, especially this individual.
All right. Does this mean that we need to start looking at, , potential tier two supports and what that looks like? Do they need to start, , being in a small group? Does it require that? And that kind of going back to that original [00:17:00] question about using data like that's really going to, Determine how you make those decisions.
It shouldn't just be a gut feeling or, hey, this student was quote unquote bad last year. , they need tier three right now, day one. , allowing, I would say allowing teachers to try and focus on a lot of the positives. I think is going to be helpful, but it is challenging for adults not to recognize.
Oh, we have, hands itself is not happening, but the student we need to figure out something. , it's kind of in combination, you want to use that information, , whether that students being referred to because of the unwanted behavior, but also, hey, are we recognizing. the good or the wanted behavior that we want from him or her.
And I think sometimes that's challenging, especially the students that have higher needs that end up, , unfortunately needing more supports, but also requiring, , them to, whether it be [00:18:00] missing classroom time or being sent to the office. , it's trying to approach,, those situations with, without bias.
, because adult behavior is very difficult to change. And, , sometimes we know when a student and a teacher don't mesh and they come together and, it's not good, it's not good for the students, it's not good for the, sometimes the health of the teacher, not good for the other classmates.
But my focus, , as a consultant is really focusing on adult behavior and changing adult behavior, especially when we have a climate sometimes that, , doesn't seem very conducive for student learning, , in which students don't feel welcome. So is there a bias sometimes with that data that we are sending in?
Yeah, I know that this. Our teacher is going to send this kid down every day. , what does that mean for the administrator or the administrative team to say, okay, , maybe how do we support our teacher [00:19:00] now in this regard? Maybe they need additional support with classroom management or. Whatever the teacher may need, maybe there is something else beyond just classroom management, , that maybe you can support , or additionally find some supports for them.
Well,, and as you're talking about this, I'm thinking about the life coaching aspect one of the foundation things I teach people is that your thoughts create your emotions, which create your actions. And when you think about how that works with kids, right? If we have that thought, that bias thought.
It creates this negative emotion towards them and our actions are going to be completely negative. And so that's where I think we really, like you said, check that bias, check your thoughts about what are your intentions? What are you thinking about a student? And it's really hard. I'm not saying this , Oh, you just changed the thought and it's easy.
Like you have to go in with, and maybe it's a neutral thought. Maybe it's not like, Oh, this student's wonderful. But maybe it's an empathetic like neutral thought towards the student [00:20:00] so that you're able to, , and of course, as a principal, you'd be coaching the teacher on this, but having that neutral thought about the student that you're then able to empathize with them a little bit more, and it can come from, .
the action can come from a better place than like you said when you have those biased thoughts and all of that going on because it really is hard if you have biased thoughts for kids to help change their behavior because you're leading with negative behavior, , as the adult. So I think that's a great point.
That you bring up. Yeah. Just to add to that, , when we talk about the behavior of adults, those individuals , will set the climate for , the building. And, , you really know, I just remember my time in the building as an administrator, just seeing, the students that would gravitate towards certain teachers.
Right. And you're like, , what does that teacher have? Like what, what, Yeah. Can we bottle that up and share it with everyone? Right. And sometimes, , depending on where that individual is [00:21:00] on the spectrum of being in education, because sometimes a lot of earlier teachers are really focused on the content, right?
And which is okay, but also know that, hey, you're not just teaching math. You're not teaching math. You're teaching students. And it's a relationship first. I think that was one thing that, , I always recognized. And I remember specifically one teacher, , , at my last stint at Streetsboro, who I remember just, he was getting hugs when students were coming off the bus and this was like day one.
And I was like, all right, something's going on. I'm like, this guy's got something. And the way he's talking to kids, I'm like, this is going to be a really good teacher. , and you look at that relationship first and we always You know, I remember the question of, , in a interview, , do you want students to like you and the correct answer?
And , I'll tell you what some people say. Some people say, no, I want people to respect me. All right. , but what I found to be the right answer is yes, [00:22:00] because students will do more for you if they like you. I'm not saying that you have to appease to all students, but you need to be oriented to the relationship first.
So as much as maybe your content, that might not be their favorite thing to learn, but they're, you're more likely to get more out of them. , if they respect you and like you and want to come to your class, , then if they don't. But yeah, I think that's a big piece. It is difficult for adults and not saying that it's easier.
Anything like that and there's probably should be some more coaching around this relationship piece and just that mindset coming in like And maybe those are those tough conversations that you have either with the teacher or you know with the student , but just trying to figure out. Hey, we're going to be in this class for 18 weeks so we got to figure out how we're going to be able to manage this relationship so , yeah, I like that idea that the [00:23:00] thoughts To emotions to actions is a big piece because it is.
Yeah. Yeah. It controls everything. What's a common mistake that you see teams make when it comes to their PBIS data and making decisions? Yeah, , common mistakes. , that's a great question. One thing I think about is one, whether they have a lack of data, that it's not telling the full story of what's going on.
Sometimes when we look at Oh, I'm thinking from a big systems approach. So going to a PBIS meeting and we're supposed to be looking at trends, whether it's by location or grade level or behavior, , we tend to get focused in on one or two students, right? , that's a big mistake. And, that tends to overhaul the conversation.
We know the time is limited with a lot of these meetings, especially, , if they're after school and if it's on a [00:24:00] Thursday, teachers are tired, principals are tired. , so we need to use, , effective. Time management, , for that, but going back to the data piece one is making sure that they have right data.
And then the second piece is like what interventions and making sure that it aligns to the actual data piece. Whether they're doing climate surveys and they're, they're figuring out what students or family perceptions are about the building, , and then using that data to make the next piece.
decision. , we work under a framework. It's called the Ohio Improvement Process. It's the five step process. Anyone can look this up. And basically there's five steps to it. You're going to use data to, to identify a need. And then you're going to, the step two is research evidence based strategies.
Three is you're going to plan. Four is you're going to implement. Five is you're going to reflect and change. All right. I feel When we get our teams moving, we do a good job within those first three [00:25:00] steps. We identify, we select strategies, , we plan. And when we start to implement is where we kind of start to see it fall apart.
And then typically we don't get to that fifth step of like, okay, hey, we've done this intervention for four to six weeks. We're coming back to look at it to say, Hey, did this work like that? Last piece, a lot of times teams miss and, , and a lot of that deals sometimes , with the data, and just working, , with fidelity regarding those measures.
So some of those data pieces, I think, obviously making sure that they have the right stuff. And they're, that information is looking at, if it's tier one, you're looking at large set trends, obviously going up to the triangle, it's more focused for smaller groups and then individuals. So collecting that information, but then, , what are you doing with it?
What now? And then trying to complete some sort of cycle. It doesn't have necessarily be this Ohio improvement [00:26:00] process to OIP, but, it has to have some sort of structure of. All right, we have this intervention, we need to collect, we need to see if our intervention is working, now what? It even goes along with the PLC questions, , okay, what do we want our kids to know in a behavior sense and be able to do?
What are we going to do with those kids who are already doing it well? What are we going to do with those kids who are struggling? Same type of idea. But another thing you talked about that I really liked, and I think Is a good point is there's different ways to look at the data right like you can look at it from a macro view and a micro view and I think sometimes and the micro view is really important, but we do get caught up in that like you said, which then is getting caught up on just a couple of students behavior versus looking at this like we would look at our data and be like.
Okay, most of it's happening at recess. What, what's going on with that? And I remember one solution that actually came out of COVID was we were able to hire a recess monitor because we said, Hey, [00:27:00] most of the behaviors are happening at recess. What if we had more supervision? And it's actually really cool because then our data, when it showed that now we're having less behaviors at recess, what happened, what changed?
Well, we hired an extra supervisor, but having that data helped me be able to go to the superintendent and say, Hey, like that, we're actually seeing this as a problem. It's not like you said, a gut feeling, like we think this is a problem. Like we had the data to show. This is where all our behaviors are happening.
What if we had one more person? And going to that as well, it's, I've seen districts or buildings that will have these type of concerns and, and just like that, , they're using it to make that next step of decisions. Okay. , what should we do? And I'm thinking, in the , middle school setting, Hey, we do have a recess monitor.
We're still seeing these increases. Well, let's review the expectations when we go outside because, Hey, we're seeing students going off into the trap or they're, , [00:28:00] throwing rocks or whatever may be right. We need to continue to look at and, , okay, , when's the last time you revisit the expectations?
Of this certain setting. Can the students,, tell us what those expectations are or what it looks like? A lot of that, and hopefully it goes back to, , yes, the resources, but also teaching those expectations in those settings, because unfortunately, it only hap, I don't want to say it only happens, but we tend to see, buildings only teach it at the beginning, at coming back from break and maybe coming back from winter break, but then also coming back from spring break.
The expectation should be common language and should be used. In and out the school all the time. So the expectation isn't different in the eighth grade hallway than it is in the sixth grade hallway. And I was just coaching a teacher recently and we were talking about, , improving classroom management and things like that.
And, , we were talking about, she feels like she starts the school year so strong and is great at teaching expectations, but then [00:29:00] reflecting on it, she was like, I'm not great about going back to them throughout the year. And so we talked about. Setting up a schedule on your Google Classroom and I know we used to put on the calendar first week of the month, teach PBIS.
Now over time, I will say I think teachers just see that like,, oh, I ignore that because it's been on the calendar for five years. , but if you make it a priority and you're talking about it in staff meetings and reminding teachers, okay, it's the first of the month or the first week of the month, make sure at lunch you're reviewing those expectations, whoever's on lunch duty, make sure you're reviewing recess expectations before they go outside.
, as the principal, are you getting on buses and reviewing those bus expectations? We know how fun buses are. Oh yeah. Um, and,, helping those bus drivers with that, because that's a perfect example I always say buses are, A whole nother beast, right? You have one driver with 50 kids and you're right as they're trying to drive and you expect them to listen.
And, we only know part of what goes on a bus. I feel [00:30:00] like, unless you've got cameras and you're watching them all the time, , but helping. , the bus drivers know the expectations and having systems in place for that, I think, is huge, too. But like you said, that's where that data comes in.
Our first couple of years, we got a ton of bus slips. That was huge. And you know, I will say that's declined over the years, too, but also I attribute that to some bus driver changes and bus drivers having relationships with kids, right? So some of that data is hard to look at and say, Hey, it was something that we necessarily did for the bus.
When we saw new drivers, we saw different relationships built too. So, yeah, and I think that's a good point because school doesn't start when the bell rings. It starts when they step on that bus. Right. And that's the first person, , if you're, if your child is riding a bus, that's the first person they're seeing from the district , and that's a big piece of how they feel welcome to going to that school and whatnot.
And some of the stuff that we were. able to work [00:31:00] when I was at Shreveport. We had a very, strong director of technology and transportation. He was Very focused. And he used data all the time regarding some of those bus referrals.
And then if it got to a point to where, building administrator needs to have a conversation, then we would be involved. But the fact that we were very focused on PBIS and saying like, okay, well, Hey, here are our expectations. How can we integrate this into, , the bus routes in the transportation, , department? He was like, absolutely. So especially for, , . Our young learners at the elementary level, tell your bus drivers, Hey, these are the expectations for our building. If they can demonstrate this, , in the setting that they're being safe, responsible, and respectful, like here's some tickets , and they know, and teach them, the bus drivers that procedure, God bless all bus drivers, cause that is such a very.
Difficult job to do, , just being on a few buses, myself, , [00:32:00] to watch behaviors and, it's definitely challenging , and we do have a short, , I'm thinking the data around Northeast Ohio is we struggle to have bus drivers since the pandemic. And, those districts that are fully staffed, I think , they're very appreciative.
, that's another piece of it. It's not just, , it's within the building itself, but also, , what does it look like on the bus? How are we demonstrating these things at events, sporting events, , academic extracurricular, , events after school. , yeah, it's definitely goes beyond, , just, , the brick and mortar.
So one last question for you. How can you use AI to interpret data that you have about, your climate and your PBIS data? Yeah, all of it. Do it. Do AI. Uh, uh, you know, For me, , the way I see, going back to that question, like what mistakes do we see being made?
Okay. I think that when we elect our teams or, committees, whatever they may be, especially for like [00:33:00] PBIS, sometimes our teachers are so focused or our staff, supportive staff, whoever's on the team, that their specialty may be in, in that content area, right? It might not be to look at. all these different graphs and try to figure out what to do sometimes.
And go into the instructional world and you're looking at, a variety of things of proficiency scores and, screeners, all these things, there's a variety of data points that we need to consider. , and that can be challenging. And I think that, , when you're building the capacity of a team or even a building leader, , they might need support in this,, looking at AI and the platforms that are available that can hold and look at large sets of data.
I would say that they teams should look into that and maybe make that decision if it's appropriate for them [00:34:00] to use it. But I think that the integration of AI just in our daily lives is continuing to grow day by day. , if you log into, , what is this wave? , from Microsoft, like you're going to get the AI, app right next to it.
The big thing is definitely being aware of where that data is going, making sure that you're not putting in any personal information. , no student IDs or anything like that. But if you're putting in general trends. Of, hey, we have 45 referrals this month for, hands to self or, however you can break it down to make it pretty broad.
, AI is doing a pretty good job of looking at that and providing potential suggestions of what to do, but also, , hey, am I missing something? Maybe your team is only three or four people and you're a community school and that's all you have and you need another set of eyes. It allows teams to look at that and say, okay, , maybe we need [00:35:00] another viewpoint or something we're missing.
And I don't know what certain platforms have. So if a team's using Swiss, , right now, I don't believe that there's. any of this generative AI piece to it yet, but I would, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these platforms are going to have this stuff. Like you're talking about a lot of these platforms such as like Zoom, LinkedIn, Google, all these things have some version of it to a degree.
It's just, how is it being used? And then also knowing where that information's going. Yeah, I think that's a great point. I was actually in a training. It was pretty cool that he took a spreadsheet and you, like you said, take out any identifying information and it was third grade reading scores and copied it into Claude.
Like you can attach and said, , interpret this data. I've heard people call AI a thought partner, which I love, use it, like it's another team member and ask it these questions. , You [00:36:00] know ? What are the strengths of this data? What are the weaknesses? And like you said, it brings There's no bias, right?
It's a computer. So I think that it brings out that the answer without any subjectivity of a teacher who might have that with their content area or their area that they're focused on. Yeah. I was able to present on, um,, AI and education. And a lot of the focus has been like within the classroom, like how do we tailor our lessons to meet the needs of, , a vast group of learners of, 25 kids.
Right. And so, yeah. So if you're doing a ELA lesson and, you know, kids have different interests. Yeah. That's a great way to kind of figure out tailoring it that way. But, , yeah, the PD I provided was. Using it for building and teams and even district leaders to look at your data. , I think we're kind of missing that boat in that regard of, Hey, , if you're a DLT, you can possibly be using this data to, to make decisions , or confirm [00:37:00] your decisions that you're making to see if , maybe this is right, or.
Hey, just give us , another set of eyes , on this. But, , yeah, that data piece can be overwhelming and it can be daunting for some teams to look at, especially when you have multiple data points. But, , I think that's a big piece in education and it's only going to continue to be integrated.
And if teams do not know how to use it, it would be, , it's going to make it more challenging. Yeah. And I think people are scared of it. And like you said, It's already here. It's on so many things that we don't even realize that we're using AI. So we might as well embrace it versus, you know, shy away from it.
Yeah. And it's, I think that it's, it can be scary, especially with, all the movies out there and whatnot. And, , I think that those individuals that are out there that are leading these large language models. These LMMs, , that, , you have your Claude, , your chat GPTs, your co pilots, your Gemini's, [00:38:00] those individuals that are doing this, , there's been some, I heard a great speaker, Ken Shelton say, AI should have us go slow and fix things instead of moving fast.
, because that's where we can probably see a lot of errors and mistakes. But, , yeah, with that, it's kind of a slow process, especially for education. , there are some early adopters, but at the same time, , there's a lot of, , districts , and teams that are just not aware of it. And it's not like it's wrong or bad.
It's just, it is what it is. So when the time comes and they need to know about it, , hopefully there's , some good PD for them to understand how to use it and the best ways to use it. Yeah. And I'm just going to give a plug for a podcast that I've been hosting in the last, , few episodes, but it's the ed tech startup showcase.
And they have a lot of thought leaders and different companies come on, and people using different AI tools and things like that, that I have never heard [00:39:00] of. So I have learned so much by hosting this podcast series. , so I encourage all principals, if you've not listened to that yet, and I'll put a link.
In the show notes, it's a great podcast to listen and learn more about technology and how it can help you in all these different areas. Absolutely. And just a way to reach the learners. I think that's a big piece too, especially with, just. Not knowing , what, uh,, jobs are going to look like in five, 10, 15 years, like in how does AI impact that?
I think on this trend, we're going to see it impacting it a lot. , just based on what I'm hearing and what my algorithm shows, , is that it's going to be impacted. So, um,, yeah, it's a good piece. Well, thanks, Brian, so much for being here. A lot of great information on data and just how we can really be using that PBIS data to meet the needs of our students and make decisions in our schools.
Thanks for having me.
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