The Principal's Handbook

Self-Efficacy & Time Management for Principals
Speaker 3: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Principal's Handbook, your go-to resource for principals looking to revamp their leadership approach and prioritize self-care. I'm Barb Flowers, a certified life coach with eight years of experience as an elementary principal. Tune in each week as we delve into strategies for boosting mental resilience, managing time effectively, and nurturing overall wellness.
From tackling daily challenges to maintaining a healthy work-life balance. We'll navigate the complexities of school leadership together. Join me in fostering your sense of purpose as a principal and reigniting your passion for the job. Welcome to a podcast where your wellbeing is the top priority.
I.
Speaker: Welcome everyone to the Principal's Handbook. I'm so excited. Today we have guest Dan Cat Turbo with us, and I am excited for him to share his knowledge. We're going to be talking about self-efficacy, but I wanna start with Stan just, telling us a little bit about himself, his [00:01:00] history and education, and how he got here today.
Welcome Stan.
Speaker 2: Well, good morning and thank you for having me, Barb. I'm real excited to be here today. , Just to talk a little bit about myself, , I'm from Northeastern Ohio. , I was a band director, high school, middle school, elementary school for 12 years, and then I had an assistant principal who was a former band director.
That talked me into becoming a school administrator. , Since then I've worked in Georgia and South Carolina as a band director and in Georgia and Ohio as a school administrator. , Of course started off as assistant principal and worked my way up to principal. , I am currently an assistant principal.
I took a, , demotion to get closer to home. I'm also the newly appointed director of testing and assessment, , for the school district I work in here in northeastern Ohio. , I'm real interested in self-efficacy and that's really what my doctoral research is in. , And I kinda relate it to a personal experience where.
, In 2017, I was my first year as a building principal, ironically. , I came down with leukemia [00:02:00] and, , it was a really, , really tough time and almost didn't make it through. But, , throughout that whole time I was dealing with leukemia, I always believed in the power of positive thinking. Mm-hmm. And that aligned itself really well with self-efficacy.
And, , being a school administrator, I've always thought that, if you believe in yourself, you're gonna do. Better at something. My doctoral research is in principal self-efficacy. I'm working on my dissertation right now, and, , I'm really excited to share some thoughts, , some feedback, and some things that I give you to help you, , on your path as a school administrator in regards to self-efficacy.
Speaker: Perfect. Well, before we dive into it, I just wanna say one thing I love about your career path that I hear from a lot of principals is you always feel like you have to take the next step. And you said, I took a demotion. I, went back to being an assistant principal. And I always think we need to normalize your career path has to be what works for you, , for your situations.
Like you said, you took a job. To be closer to home. It could have been a better district. There's so many [00:03:00] factors, and so I just love that you said that because I hear that from principals a lot. , I'm a principal, I'm overwhelmed right now. It'd be better in my life to be an assistant principal. Is it bad if I step back?
And I think we need to normalize that. It's always about what works for you. So I just have to say that first, that I think that's so great to share with others, because that's something that I think a lot of people ask about.
Speaker 2: And Barb, I think, , it's hard sometimes 'cause my eventual goal has become a superintendent.
Mm-hmm. So the motion, yeah, it was difficult, but. I think sometimes an hour and 10 minute drive versus a 15 minute drive is more time with my family, more time with my kids, and more time doing other things, , even working on my dissertation. So yeah, sometimes you'll take that step back and then, if you do a good job, you're gonna eventually promote it anyways.
And that's why , this, at the end of the school year, my superintendent also gave me the title of director of. , Testing and assessment. , Yeah, it's sometimes you have to take a step back to take that larger step forward for not only for yourself, your family, and your future. [00:04:00]
Speaker: Yeah. , , and I think all of this will tie into self-efficacy, but I also wanna say too, like we get stuck in titles.
And you could be in an assistant principal in a building of 500 and then be a principal in a building of 300, and then become an assistant in a building of . 2000, you know what I mean? So even those titles that looks different and we say demotion, but it's really not because it could look different in so many ways.
And so I think that ties into self-efficacy today of that idea of belief in yourself, where you are in your career, how you behave as a principal, all of that. And I think it's such an important topic and something that I see so many principals, talk about. So talk to us a little bit about.
You've been studying this, like what do you think self-efficacy is? What have you learned about it, and how it relates to principles?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the most important thing and, , through my studies , and I'm actually working on sending out the surveys eventually, or instruments, I shall say the most important thing is for a, [00:05:00] I think a principle to self-reflect.
Mm-hmm. , Because as we all know, we are constantly being pulled a thousand different directions. And part of my dissertation study, I talk about the different hats we wear. We're a counselor sometimes or a coach. Sometimes we're a teacher, sometimes. Sometimes we're just a manager, whether it's in the cafeteria or whatnot.
So I think it's important that as we wear all those hats. That we have a positive mindset about how we approach those things. 'cause if I walk into the classroom with a teacher and I know in myself, in my mind, well, I don't know anything about science, but I'm supposed to evaluate this teacher. I think if I go with a positive mindset saying, you know what?
I need to look at what he or she is doing and actually go through and coach them with that. , I learn as well as we know sometimes as we're teaching, we're learning. It's kinda like we build the plane as we're flying it. So I think that when, if you're that teacher entering that situation, you need to think positive about, well, yeah, I do.
You know, I know about teaching. I know a pedagogy. , I have a [00:06:00] basic knowledge about the science curriculum, so let's have a positive attitude about it. And through my experiences, both personally and professionally, I found if you walk in with a positive mindset, regardless of what task you're completing as a leader.
You might not feel strong about it, but if you're positive about it, the outcome is usually and most times better for you and for the person that's being affected or impacted by what's going on.
Speaker: Yeah. And one of the things that I coach on that I've talked about in the podcast, if our listeners have listened, to previous episodes, but your thoughts create your emotions, which create your actions.
And that's such a huge thing. And like you're saying, like if you go into any situation with the thought of, I can't do this, or like you said, principles wear so many hats. So maybe it's with, management, you have the thought, I'm a great instructional leader, but I can't manage the schedule or behaviors.
Then that's like a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? That's what's going to happen. And so I think that's so important that we manage and think about what those thoughts are [00:07:00] in different areas of our leadership that could be holding us back and like you said, your self-efficacy and how you view your beliefs as a leader.
Speaker 2: Well, exactly, and I can give a personal example. I was a band director. So curriculum probably is not my strongest suit, just being honest about it. Mm-hmm. But, you know, with a bad attitude, thinking, oh, I don't know anything about curriculum, , it's , not gonna do anything for me.
So that's a perfect example of how, I have to look at it differently and self-reflect and find ways to improve all the time, but it's really about that positive attitude. Like you mentioned, it's if you go with a negative attitude, we're not gonna get anywhere. So.
Speaker: And I have a book recommendation that actually a coach just recommended to me that I wanna recommend to everybody called The Secret.
And it's a little bit out there, but it is this whole idea that your thoughts create your life, right? Like your life is created by all of the thoughts that accumulate. And so, , I'm just starting it, but I think that it's a really good, book for anybody to read, to think about. Thoughts you have [00:08:00] anywhere in your life that could be changed.
So yeah, I think, , that's such an important point that you're making with self-efficacy. It all comes from your thoughts. What are those intentions that you're believing? What areas and becoming aware. You know, we always say when you're thinking about improving in any area, the first thing you have to do is become aware because you might not even realize.
The negative thoughts you have about certain areas. Like you just said in instruction, you have that awareness. So it's okay to be aware that this area might be weaker, so I need to read more books or get more training, or have more professional development in this area. But if you're like, I'll never be better at this, then that's exactly what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: I think, , another important thing, and I I personally struggle with this and I'm working on this area of research, is the imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. That's something with, , I think there's a large number of school leaders that deal with imposter syndrome and, you know, there are some ways to tackle that, again, is [00:09:00] that positive attitude that I keep mentioning.
, I think that's important too. , Another way to think about it is. Oftentimes we don't realize, we think everyone is watching us. We're constantly on a spotlight, and we are in some ways as school leaders, but in many ways, you know, people , are struggling the same ways we are with the things we're doing.
I know when I walk into A PLC with administrators from different counties, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm probably the worst one there. I'm probably the worst leader in this group. But you know, the more you go in there with that attitude that, you know what, hey. We're all in here together to learn and we're gonna get better and we're gonna work with each other.
I think that's important and that just, again, that positive attitude. I might not be the best at everything, but I do work hard and I can self-reflect on that like you talked about, and I can work to become better at that. But, , the imposter syndrome is something that I think a lot of us school leaders deal with on a daily basis.
Speaker: Well, it's funny that you say that 'cause I can remember being a teacher so clearly and I think that's a really positive thing 'cause I can connect with them so much. [00:10:00] Um, it feels like just yesterday and it's been over 10 years that I've been out of the classroom, but. Sometimes I'll be leading teachers and you just have this thought of like, how did I get here?
You know, like how did I become the one who's standing up here, who's the principal of this building? And I've had that thought a lot as I'm actually going back to the district that I taught in where I haven't been the last, , nine years, but. It's like, wow, how did I get here? You know? And it's kind of, and you can have the thought that you're not good enough to be there or , I just sometimes reflect and think, how did time pass?
How did this happen? How did I make it to this point? And it's just a crazy feeling. But it is hard when you sit in a room and I think, like you said, it's so common. You're around all these super smart administrators. They have these great thoughts and you're like. Am I good enough to be in this room?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
And it's tough and, , to reflect on your thought about, , you walk in and there're saying, oh my gosh, I'm in charge. I'm the boss. You [00:11:00] know, I, I, first time I really had that feeling. It was when I became an elementary principal. And, the first week I'd walk in the classroom my first year as an elementary principal.
My, my area is predominantly middle and high school, but I walk in and. And for those second graders, I was a rock star. And that's when I really felt empowered that, wow, this is me. I can't believe I'm here. Yes, I'm physically here and doing it. , Yeah, it's really important that, you know, you really focus on those kind of things that reassure you that yeah, you're supposed to be there.
You weren't picked unless you were the one that was meant for that position. So, and that all ties into self-efficacy and definitely the, , imposter syndrome.
Speaker: Yeah. And I think going with that, just a little tip that I've , found from other coaches is making sure, like you said, get that thought like I do belong here.
And if imposter syndrome is something you struggle with, like rethinking that thought over and over and reminding yourself and finding evidence, it's always important to find evidence for that thought of, how do you know you belong here? Well, because I went to [00:12:00] two years of school to be an administrator or.
I have this experience, or you know, I've worked hard to get to this point, but it's always finding evidence for that thought because we can always find evidence for a negative thought, and we can always find evidence for a positive thought, right? For the same situation. So it's like you said, twisting it to be in a more positive light so that you're able to think about it more positively.
Speaker 2: Exactly. And I also wanna, make a note about self-care. I know that's one of your big topics for administrators is self-care. , There's the old line, I'm sure you've heard a thousand times. If you can't, you don't gotta take care of yourself before you take care of others.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And
Speaker 2: I think young, when I was a young administrator, I struggled with that.
I was putting in the full-time and then working weekends, so late at night. And then at some point I realized that, , I'm killing myself and I'm probably ineffective to a lot of my teachers I work with. So I've really done some things to kind of make certain that, , I'm not checking out, but I'm not fully [00:13:00] checked in when I leave the school building.
, And an an vice, uh, an older administrator gave me, I was a young administrator and I thought, no way, this is not true. , And this goes along with self-efficacy and just taking care of ourselves. . I do not have my school email on my phone. Um mm-hmm. I love that. And that was a blessing and a godsend, because if not, you're constantly the next ding.
Is it your superintendent saying, you know, oh, I gotta talk to you tonight or something. Which that happens sometimes and it's perfectly fine, however. You know, you've got to take care of yourself and that's gonna help you with your self-efficacy. Honestly. Working at home, working at school, whatever it is.
But I think that as far as self-care, I know you talk about that a lot in your podcast. I think that's the one little tip I would like to share with everyone. , And probably the other thing I think is important, if you don't keep a calendar, you gotta keep a calendar. I think that, . Because if you're not organized, you're less apt to be effective and then that's gonna mess with your self-efficacy and then you're gonna feel more like an imposter.
It's a avalanche effect. [00:14:00]
Speaker: Yeah, that's a great point. I actually, and I'll link it in the show notes for everyone, but I have of course the eight to four principle blueprint where that's everything. I talk about, efficient routines and how we do everything at school to be more efficient so we can leave. So I have a question for you that maybe could help listeners if they're struggling with.
Low self-efficacy or imposter syndrome like you talked about, and you feel like you have to be doing more. 'cause one thing I talk about in my course is this mindset, right? Like you have to have the mindset that. , I'm not measured by my hours worked, which is a different philosophy. And if you have , low self-efficacy, if you're struggling with imposter syndrome, you might have the thought, I have to be the first one there.
I have to be the last one to leave. I have to have email on my phone. I'm so important. Everybody has to be able to contact me. Right. And so what would you tell the principal that has those thoughts since you've been able to disconnect and, you know, kind of set those boundaries for yourself?
Speaker 2: Sure. I think, , I can't [00:15:00] take all the credit for that.
I think working for a good superintendent is important as well. And, , I, I have a very, very, very good superintendent I work for. , He understands the difference between work time and home time. And he usually doesn't bother us unless there's something urgent going on. But I, I think it's just simply realizing.
What's more important and why it's important? Yes, it's important to have a career and it's important, and we all have goals in our careers, but most of us also have a family to answer to, and we can't let the family life sacrifice to make ourselves a better principal. So. The most important thing, like I said, is definitely the cell phone, , school email.
, I've gotten into a routine when I get home. Home is for my boys and my wife, and that's what happens. , I will occasionally check it at night if it's eight or nine o'clock right before bed just to kind of check in. Weekends. I usually check it Saturday night and maybe Sunday [00:16:00] night, but I'm not answering 20 emails Saturday night.
And the other side to that, if you think about it. If as a teacher, I'm getting an email from an administrator Saturday night at nine o'clock wanting an answer by Monday, 7:00 AM then we have a problem then. Mm-hmm. Most things can be, can be held until the next business day or next school day. , And I've even seen some administrators that even have on the bottom of their email says, my working hours are 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM You know, if you send me an email, I might not respond till the next day.
And I wouldn't expect you to respond either if I email you after school hours. Another great tool as we're talking, this sparked my mind. . Most school districts are using Gmail and Google at this point. , There is a schedule send on your email. So if you do happen to be working nine o'clock on Saturday and you send an email to maybe some teachers or a grade team or a subject matter team, I schedule send that for Monday morning at 8:00 AM just because.
I don't want them opening it up Sunday or a [00:17:00] Saturday night as well and thinking, worrying about something all weekend, which is probably something that's simple and could be handled either face-to-face or through a brief email exchange. So that schedule sent is very important as well. Having an organized calendar definitely, , helps me.
I have a school calendar and then we have a family calendar, , that we put our family events. But let's say for example, I have football coverage for a Friday night football game. I carbon copy that onto my personal calendar so my wife can see, oh, Stan has a football game Friday night. He's not gonna be available to help running the boys to soccer.
Those kind of things. But it's really more so organizing your entire life. And I like Barb, that's your focus as a life coach, I think. And these all kind of tie together that make us all stronger people, better people, stronger administrators, and better leaders. I think that's really the goal that everyone wants, but it's finding that balance in that organization.
To make yourself effective, successful, and serving others
Speaker: well, you said something that was so important. Then I think about your introduction and you know what we've [00:18:00] talked about where you've had the health scare, right? Like mm-hmm. And so you have had the perspective of what's really important. And I think if you haven't had a health scare, something like that, sometimes it's harder to remember that.
But I think it's a good reminder for all of us. And I have to say, my superintendent in my last district used to say, and you know, at first it's like, man, that's harsh, but you could be replaced tomorrow. But he said it not in a way to threaten me, he said it in a way of like, remember what comes first, right?
, My kids are gonna remember me missing things. Nobody at the school is going to, I might feel like I have to be there, but if something happens to me. They'll move on the next day and they'll be sad for a minute and then they move on, right? But my family is a whole nother story, and so I think always keeping that in mind helps with not only.
Self-efficacy and how you see yourself and your thoughts and your beliefs, but also that , prioritizing things, being more efficient while you're at school [00:19:00] so that you can be home with your family. I always say to my teachers, to myself, we work really hard when we're here and then we disconnect and we go home and be with our families because.
Nobody works at a school because they just feel like it. And we all are millionaires, right? We work there for a paycheck. So we gotta keep that in perspective, even though we love what we do and we're all passionate about education. Like you gotta keep in perspective why we work.
Speaker 2: And another thing I would add, , there, there's some studies and , there's actually a person out there that does some training, , about focusing on just that time during the school day.
And I've been to that training years ago, but several things I took out of that that I think would also help. , I know we have a calendar meeting every week, where myself and all the administrators in our building. The secretaries and counselors and even the school resource officers are in on, and we go over the calendar for the week.
That just gets everyone kind of lined up to know what's going on that keep things more efficient. Oh, Stan, you're covering the Friday night football game. [00:20:00] I'm doing, this, and you know, so we're all on the same page. I think that's important too. Another thing to help keep you organized in general and help things go faster, I think, and during your day to get more done is.
Give your administrative assistant or secretary more tasks. I think that that's important as well because you know, we always have something to do, .
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And
Speaker 2: you know, if there's 20 things to do, we need to do a better job delegating. And I think that. For me personally, I struggle delegating 'cause that goes with that imposter syndrome.
Oh no. If I'm delegating this, that means I don't know how to do it. The secret's gonna get out that I'm not real. And so that's one of those little tidbits I found and I'm really doing a better job at that. And probably one other thing , I'll suggest, and this is more time management, , but it go aligns with self-efficacy.
As a young administrator, , I had a principal tell me, , as I was doing lunch duty, which he assigned me to, , he said to me, he said, Stan, he said, you are currently the [00:21:00] highest paid lunch monitor we have. Right. While it's important to be in lunch, and I think it's important to build those relationships with students during lunchtime.
You know, we need to find other people to help do that, to free ourself, up, to do , the teacher coaching, the teacher observations, the real connection with the students that we need to make, whether it be in the lunchroom or in the classroom. So those are just a couple things that kind of semi aligned with it.
Speaker: No, and as you're saying that, I'm like, this goes all along with your thinking, one delegating. It's like. Knowing what your role is, knowing that you are the big picture leader , I think is one way that we have to step back and think about it one time, , because I love creating resources.
I was creating something and my reading coach was like, why are you doing that? You're the principal. Do something else. And she was right. She's like, I can create that. And I'm like, okay, thank you. Yes. You're so right. I need to be delegating to you. And so. Thinking about that, but even as you schedule yourself, I'm working on this schedule [00:22:00] right now, and that's something different I do.
I know some principals schedule themselves into duties and I just don't, because it doesn't mean I won't be there. It doesn't give me a pass to not be there. It's super important, but like you said. There might be an angry parent who comes in that I need to deal with. There might be teachers that I need to support in some way.
Students, you know, I can't schedule myself to be the monitor. , And I kind of think about that because I was a Title one tutor as a new teacher, and I was doing recess duty. And the superintendent called and was like, we do not pay her almost 30 bucks an hour to do recess duty, get her in classrooms, teaching kids how to read, right.
And that's so true. And so I always kind of have that thought in the back of my mind too, like that was me as a Title one tutor. So now as the leader of the building, it's the same thing. How am I utilizing my time in a way that's super effective so that I can be really effective when I'm here and go home and just be connected to [00:23:00] my family?
Speaker 2: Exactly. , And a couple more , I'll share that I found helped me, , more schedule wise, but I always schedule time to reflect. , Even if it's just 20 minutes, , whether it's reading a biblical passage. Or reading something from John Gordon or something of that sort. I always find some time to kind of just catch my breath because my door is open all the time and my wife is a teacher.
, And we come home, we talk sometimes, and you know. She says, well, why didn't you do this? Or why didn't you make the appointment for the dentist? Well, I don't get a planning period, you know, as, and I tell my wife, you get an hour or whatever, it's for your planning period, plus you get a lunch.
Typically, my lunch is eating, walking down the hallway.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So I think it's important. And sometimes I do schedule those lunches. If I need a day or I need that time, maybe I combine self-reflection time and lunchtime. That to me is pivotable. 'cause sometimes you just need to close that door. Maybe it's crying sometimes.
[00:24:00] Oh yeah. Catching your breath. Maybe it's like, why did that person do that? And why am I now having to deal with it? So that's the first thing. Two, make sure you're using the bathroom. I mean, I remember as a teacher I would've to hold it all day. Pretty much use that bathroom when you need to, don't you know?
Well, I need to use the bathroom. Gimme five minutes. , The third tip, I will tell you, and I used to do this, I don't do it as much now. . I just carry on a little notebook with me and every morning I'd stop in with every teacher and I'd check in with 'em just saying, Hey, how are you? Is there something I can do for you?
And. Eventually they don't give you stuff to do. But you know, those things are important and write that down in the notebook. Or I'll tell the teacher, Hey, you know what, just send me that email reminding me and I'll get on it. 'cause by the time I get through all the classrooms and get back into my office, I'm gonna forget half those things.
So just some more time management stuff too. But that'll help you become a better leader and, definitely, not feel like an imposter.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. And I think the more you create [00:25:00] systems. Leadership just becomes more natural, right? Where, or it feels more natural, where it's just like, this is just what I do.
I have routines in place, I have systems in place, and it does it. Build yourself, your self-efficacy, build your self-confidence, and makes you feel like. I know what I'm doing. I have these routines and things that I do that are very consistent because that's what teachers want, right? I always think about the principal that led the building I was in.
He was so consistent, had so many routines, and that's why everybody loved him. Like we knew exactly what to expect. There wasn't. Any confusion about, , what he might do or what he might think he supported us. He was clear, he was consistent, and that was huge. And I think that consistency is also your routines, how you're interacting with your staff, your students, things like that.
I think that plays into all of it.
Speaker 2: I think definitely, and we're getting off a little bit, but I think also being transparent in everything we do. Mm-hmm. [00:26:00] Decisions, and you kinda alluded to that just a few moments ago. , Being visible, while it is hard to be visible all the time, we do have to get out and be visible and including people in the decision making process.
I think that's important as well to being a good leader and not falling in the trap of, , you know, feeling like an imposter.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Stan, it was great having you on today. Any last tips or anything you wanna add before we go?
Speaker 2: , Talking a little bit about systems, I think that's important too.
Now. , It is important if you ever become a new principal, don't change everything. I think it's important. Mm-hmm. Back and observe and reflect. And one thing I learned as a young principal, sometimes people are gonna come to you real quick and they want you to make changes as the new principal. You need to sit back and reflect on those things a little bit and analyze the systems that are in place and see, like you mentioned, Barb, what systems can I do that will improve the efficiency of the way the building's running, , regarding self-efficacy?
Just take care of yourself. Eat those lunches, take that [00:27:00] time, drink lots of water, and, , get those 10,000 steps a day. I think I average 17 to 18,000 and I'm not the smallest guy in the world. So, , with that, you know, I think that, , the self-efficacy piece is so important for us to be effective leaders In closing.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, awesome, Stan. I appreciate you being here. How can people find you or connect with you?
Speaker 2: , You can connect with me through my email address. It's STAN. K-O-T-E-R-B-A and I said that a little fast. It's my first name and last name@gmail.com. That's probably the best way to get in touch with me.
, That does go to my phone, unlike my school email. , Yeah, I send something to me and I'll definitely respond to you. I can help you out in any way I can. I also am working on, , some career coaching. , And that's more importantly, and I'm still, this is a newer thing for me. I wanna work with principals on resume building and interview processes and kinda help them because I remember when I was a teacher breaking the ranks to administration and then [00:28:00] being a band director, which I don't have that math, science, English, social studies curriculum behind my back was really hard to break into.
But I think that, if you just really focus on being a good instructional leader, it's awesome. But you can e email me at any time. That'd be great. , I'm also on Twitter, but I don't check it as much, so please email me if you have any questions. I'm more than happy to help you in any way I can.
Speaker: Sure. I'll make sure to put that in the show notes as well. Thanks again for being here. It was great talking,
Speaker 2: thanks, Barb. I appreciate it. Good luck to everyone.